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Old 08-28-2014, 03:25 PM
 
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Of course it makes personal financial sense, but you need to look outside the box and see the forest through the trees.
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Old 08-28-2014, 03:26 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
21,696 posts, read 24,888,324 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Costaexpress View Post
The profit margin is a lot higher. That makes it much less competitive unless the quality is much higher.
Yes, one of the reasons I don't shop a lot at farmers markets that much anymore. Although where I live, it's pretty much your only way of getting organic food since the stuff that's organic at the grocery store is mostly moldy, sad looking rejects that I'm pretty sure they just slap a organic sticker on and figure some Yuppie idiot will buy it once it's been deemed to old to sell in the regular produce section.
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Old 08-28-2014, 03:31 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Yes, one of the reasons I don't shop a lot at farmers markets that much anymore. Although where I live, it's pretty much your only way of getting organic food since the stuff that's organic at the grocery store is mostly moldy, sad looking rejects that I'm pretty sure they just slap a organic sticker on and figure some Yuppie idiot will buy it once it's been deemed to old to sell in the regular produce section.
So those are farmers markets are not yuppie idiots?
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Old 08-28-2014, 05:24 PM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,353,526 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thatguydownsouth View Post
This is where ethics and business clash. Hopefully one day people will realize what buying the cheapest crap provided to you does to the economy. Americans want products to be cheap, no matter what the costs. Even if its at the expense of their own jobs. Slavery made products cheap and affordable too in its day. Then finally people woke up to the fallacies of such a system. Today we have foreign workforces make our cheap crap in sweat shops for pennies on the dollar. The difference here of course is we don't see these people and the conditions they are being placed in.

If you believe in buying the cheapest product you can find, at whatever expense...then you deserve the economy that we are in. And here in a few minutes, someone will post an article about the growing wealth gap and ask whats causing it.

(loops back to previous post above re: living wage.

I don't think we can expect low-wage workers to shop local if they cannot afford to do so. They may be imploding the economy - in an effort to personally be among the last to implode.
Attached Thumbnails
Pay more, shop local, does it make sense?-implode1.png  
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Old 08-28-2014, 05:27 PM
 
1,166 posts, read 1,374,818 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Costaexpress View Post
So those are farmers markets are not yuppie idiots?


Obviously you've already got your mind made up about people who choose to shop locally and may, or may not, spend more to do so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by headingtoDenver View Post
I'm thinking more of what the OP mentioned and that is farmers markets. I can go to my local grocery store (or even Wal-Mart) and get Colorado grown vegetables for X price or I can go to the local farmers market and buy the same Colorado grown vegetable (probably a different farm) for a significantly higher price of Y. Now, why would I buy from the farmer's market when the grocery store is a significant savings? One reason is because you can support the local farmer directly and the profit margin is probably a lot higher for the farmer selling it to you versus the farmer selling their vegetables to the grocery store. Of course, I've seen multiple instances where the person selling the vegetables at the market are not the farmer and just reselling.
Because the major grocery store may not be paying enough to keep the farmer in business. If they're paying the farmer $2 for the produce and selling it for $6, then the farmer is only getting $2 from the sale. If they sell it themselves for $7, the farmer is getting $7 (minus overhead). If the farmer exclusively sold their produce, maybe they could afford to charge $4-5, but to make it worthwhile, they end up charging more on one end to cover the loss at the other end. Or maybe the farmer selling to the major grocer has 100 acres and can afford to sell lower in bulk, but his neighbor next door only has 20 acres which isn't enough for the major suppliers to want to deal with him, so to make a living, he has to sell for more at local markets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago76 View Post
It's a complex economic problem that depends upon a few things:

1-how much more are people spending (local v. national)?
2-what are the economic multipliers for shopping national and shopping local in that particular store?
3-how likely is local money recirculation likely to benefit the person making the purchase?

The concept behind shopping local is to keep more money in the local economy, with the idea being that if I spend $10 locally, maybe $6 of that is reinvested in local businesses while $4 goes to pay off national vendors of my point of purchase. That $4 gets sucked out of the local economy, where it can't be taxed or spent again. The $6 can be spent at my business, my friend's business, used in part to buy a home locally, taxed to support local schools and parks, etc.

If I shop at a national chain, 9 out of 10 bucks will end up getting sucked up to corporate or spent to national vendors where it can't be spent again at my business or it can't be taxed again to support my local community.
This is an excellent explanation of why shopping local benefits us.

To extend that to the original post, the people living in urban areas and paying astronomical taxes are getting something they perceive to be of value worth paying for the taxes. Great schools versus mediocre or terrible schools? Well maintained roads, walk ways and public green spaces versus pot holes, cracked sidewalks where they exist at all, and overgrown, trash riddled and unsafe parks. Sometimes it's factors outside of what their taxes pay for, like job market, cultural offerings, etc.

In both situations, you're paying for a school, or a walk way, or a park, but it's the quality of what you're getting that makes it worth paying more for.

A loaf of bread from Wal Mart isn't going to be the same to me as a loaf of bread I've paid for the ingredients to bake myself, or to have paid a local baker for because the actual ingredients in the loaf of bread matters to me. I don't care if one is cheaper than the other.

Sure, there are examples where the quality of what you receive is fairly equitable despite the discrepancy in price, but there are always going to be other factors to consider that go beyond the simple dollar for dollar comparison.
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Old 08-28-2014, 05:32 PM
 
Location: Des Moines Metro
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I'm frugal but at the same time, it's part of my values to support the local merchants, which I do as often as I can afford. This summer, I bought produce and eggs at the farmer's market.

I've given up having coffee out for the moment, but if I did, I would support a local business rather than Starbucks.
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Old 08-28-2014, 06:50 PM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,795 posts, read 7,266,412 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Costaexpress View Post
Quite a lot of people shop at coops, farmers markets, often paying more for the same things you can get from other sources.

Many choose to live in urban areas and pay astronomical property taxes.

If these people aren't particularly rich, does it make financial sense to spend like that?
It does if you believe you are part of a community.

Long ago before the big box stores, communities were made up of local businesses which created a dynamic middle class of people with a stake in the wellbeing of the local community.
They belonged to local organizations and were active in local politics. They supported the local schools and the local charities.

Today the big box stores have put most all those mom and pop businesses out of business.
The big box stores do not care about the community or the people.
The business owners have been replaced by low wage big box store workers.
The people of the community no longer have a financial stake in the community.

But hey, what the hell, we all save $.50 on our potato chips so that's a fair trade off right?
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Old 08-28-2014, 08:23 PM
 
2,485 posts, read 2,208,514 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
It does if you believe you are part of a community.

Long ago before the big box stores, communities were made up of local businesses which created a dynamic middle class of people with a stake in the wellbeing of the local community.
They belonged to local organizations and were active in local politics. They supported the local schools and the local charities.

Today the big box stores have put most all those mom and pop businesses out of business.
The big box stores do not care about the community or the people.
The business owners have been replaced by low wage big box store workers.
The people of the community no longer have a financial stake in the community.

But hey, what the hell, we all save $.50 on our potato chips so that's a fair trade off right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozgal View Post


Obviously you've already got your mind made up about people who choose to shop locally and may, or may not, spend more to do so.



Because the major grocery store may not be paying enough to keep the farmer in business. If they're paying the farmer $2 for the produce and selling it for $6, then the farmer is only getting $2 from the sale. If they sell it themselves for $7, the farmer is getting $7 (minus overhead). If the farmer exclusively sold their produce, maybe they could afford to charge $4-5, but to make it worthwhile, they end up charging more on one end to cover the loss at the other end. Or maybe the farmer selling to the major grocer has 100 acres and can afford to sell lower in bulk, but his neighbor next door only has 20 acres which isn't enough for the major suppliers to want to deal with him, so to make a living, he has to sell for more at local markets.



This is an excellent explanation of why shopping local benefits us.

To extend that to the original post, the people living in urban areas and paying astronomical taxes are getting something they perceive to be of value worth paying for the taxes. Great schools versus mediocre or terrible schools? Well maintained roads, walk ways and public green spaces versus pot holes, cracked sidewalks where they exist at all, and overgrown, trash riddled and unsafe parks. Sometimes it's factors outside of what their taxes pay for, like job market, cultural offerings, etc.

In both situations, you're paying for a school, or a walk way, or a park, but it's the quality of what you're getting that makes it worth paying more for.

A loaf of bread from Wal Mart isn't going to be the same to me as a loaf of bread I've paid for the ingredients to bake myself, or to have paid a local baker for because the actual ingredients in the loaf of bread matters to me. I don't care if one is cheaper than the other.

Sure, there are examples where the quality of what you receive is fairly equitable despite the discrepancy in price, but there are always going to be other factors to consider that go beyond the simple dollar for dollar comparison.
These other benefits sound very vague and have quite a range of things that may or may not make sense. High property tax, but how high? It's not just one number. It's a range and must be critically examined.

The quality of these parks is important, but exactly how much money is needed? There should be more quantifiable measures than talks of culture and values, which seems disingenuous and deceiving.
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Old 08-28-2014, 09:15 PM
 
8,104 posts, read 3,939,274 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Costaexpress View Post
It doesn't have to depend on other peoples actions. You live your life. It seems like jealousy comparison mentality. I tend to buy the best value for the money, local or not. And I do not conform with the cultural elitism that has become much of shopping decisions.

I don't have a problem with other people spending specially on local.
Are you jealous that Washington DC holds so much power and wealth over us?
This is ludicrous thinking.

Wall Street pretty much owns our government and I do not want the wealth and power concentrated in their hands for the same reason.

I would rather have it spread across the country in many hands at the state, city and local level and as a consumer I have the right to spend my hard earned dollars in many ways I see fit.

It is not always only about cost, quality or availability. As a consumer, they should be allowed the freedom to make it about anything they want, from CEO Pay, to Customer Service to cleanliness and so on. I'm sure the corporate lobbyists that own our government would like to eliminate a lot of that though and make it strictly about costs.

Every time I turn around, it is corporate lobbyist tossing bills at politicians to rig the market in their favor. From "Free" Trade Pacts, Trans Atlantic Pacific Partnership and so on, They do not want a free market consumer driven economy. They want to control everything.
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Old 08-28-2014, 09:23 PM
 
8,104 posts, read 3,939,274 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Yes, one of the reasons I don't shop a lot at farmers markets that much anymore. Although where I live, it's pretty much your only way of getting organic food since the stuff that's organic at the grocery store is mostly moldy, sad looking rejects that I'm pretty sure they just slap a organic sticker on and figure some Yuppie idiot will buy it once it's been deemed to old to sell in the regular produce section.
Thing is though, you do not know what country and practices are involved in that produce.
In some countries, they do not leave the fields and take a **** right there.
I agree with regulations like you cant **** on the crops, but we need to do away with corporate drafted regulations that only exist to kill their competition.
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