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Old 11-01-2014, 06:25 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
21,704 posts, read 24,935,308 times
Reputation: 18972

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjake54 View Post
United States federal budget - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Social Security in general is not welfare. Workers paid into it, and were matched by employers. I agree that many collecting SS Disability are leeching off of it, but that's the fault of a system that rewards wackos, drunks, junkies & shirkers, as if they were disabled at work. Cut back the 35% on SSD, leave the old folks alone. Medicare/Medicaid are bloated by the medical & pharmaceutical professions, and crooked doctors & hospitals milking the system. I don't know how it could be cut, but it needs to be.
Our military is the third big spend. More than the next dozen nations combined. Time to stop being the world's policeman. The Pentagon loves billion-dollar jets & bombers, more than million-dollar drones. Now that we are energy efficient, it's time to rein the military in. Let the Arabs, etc., kill each other, in our absence.
The US federal government spends far less per person than western European countries. 41.6%of GDP.
Government spending - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"In 2010, the Federal government of the USA spent an average of $11,041 per citizen (per capita). This compares to the 2010 World average spending of $2,376 per citizen and an average of $16,110 per citizen for the World's 20 largest economies (in terms of GDP). Of the 20 largest economies, only six spent less per citizen: South Korea ($4,557), Brazil ($2,813), Russia ($2,458), China ($1,010), and India ($226). Of the 13 that spent more, Norway and Sweden top the list with per citizen spending of $40,908 and $26,760 respectively."
Denmark spends 57.6%, France 56.1%. Even Germany spends 45.4%, and it is starving its infrastructure.
Yes, it is.

There's tons of arguments, all non-sensical, about why social security is not welfare. One of my favorites is that it's "insurance" as if that has anything to do with welfare. Take a look at ObamaCare. It's insurance. Fun fact: Somewhere around 80% of of ObamaCare policies are receiving subsidies. It's overwhelmingly a welfare program. Is it insurance? Why, sure it is. Is it paid for by taxpayers? Sure, sure, that's where the government gets its money. Is it welfare? You bet.

Putting FICA in a bucket doesn't change anything. And I agree, there's an insurance aspect to it, but that really isn't why it's welfare or why it's not welfare. It's welfare because it's DESIGNED to be a wealth transfer mechanism. Let's say Person A makes $25,000 whereas Person B makes $100,000 a year. Person A at full retirement can expect to take out $1,145 per month. Person B who pays four times as much into the system? $2,575. Why is Person B's benefit roughly $2,000/mo less? Because it's from the ground up a social welfare system. In contrast, Germany's system is straight line. Pay in four times as much, you get four times as much in benefits.
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Old 11-01-2014, 06:35 PM
 
3,092 posts, read 1,939,684 times
Reputation: 3030
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Yes, it is.

There's tons of arguments, all non-sensical, about why social security is not welfare. One of my favorites is that it's "insurance" as if that has anything to do with welfare. Take a look at ObamaCare. It's insurance. Fun fact: Somewhere around 80% of of ObamaCare policies are receiving subsidies. It's overwhelmingly a welfare program. Is it insurance? Why, sure it is. Is it paid for by taxpayers? Sure, sure, that's where the government gets its money. Is it welfare? You bet.

Putting FICA in a bucket doesn't change anything. And I agree, there's an insurance aspect to it, but that really isn't why it's welfare or why it's not welfare. It's welfare because it's DESIGNED to be a wealth transfer mechanism. Let's say Person A makes $25,000 whereas Person B makes $100,000 a year. Person A at full retirement can expect to take out $1,145 per month. Person B who pays four times as much into the system? $2,575. Why is Person B's benefit roughly $2,000/mo less? Because it's from the ground up a social welfare system. In contrast, Germany's system is straight line. Pay in four times as much, you get four times as much in benefits.
I'm not sure this is a compelling argument that social security is welfare. However, you do make a valid point. The social security forced deductions are a terrible 'investment' for far too many out there. Kind of like the rest of our taxes.
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Old 11-01-2014, 06:46 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
21,704 posts, read 24,935,308 times
Reputation: 18972
Quote:
Originally Posted by dysgenic View Post
I'm not sure this is a compelling argument that social security is welfare. However, you do make a valid point. The social security forced deductions are a terrible 'investment' for far too many out there. Kind of like the rest of our taxes.
I wasn't aware that I really made any argument that it was. I just said that the arguments that it is not are nonsensical.

Social Security History

My opinion is that a former commissioner is much more qualified to tell you that social security is welfare than I am.
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Old 11-01-2014, 07:01 PM
 
18,517 posts, read 15,502,624 times
Reputation: 16193
Well, that's a lot more than 50-60 years ago when a lot of women weren't in the workforce at all. If they were previously stay at home moms or housewives, and now they make $18k, they have improved their income, despite the fact that they dragged the median down by entering the workforce!

Same applies to "semi-retirees" - especially those over 65. Formerly they might make nothing at all in terms of labor income, now they have entered the workforce and pulled down the median.
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Old 11-01-2014, 08:37 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,009 posts, read 2,262,473 times
Reputation: 2152
Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post
Emphasis added...

A solution implies there is a problem. What problem is it that you think needs solving?
When people are not payed enough at their jobs to live on and have to rely on government programs our taxes pay for it is a problem. If you want to be ignorant and live in la la land and believe everything is fine and dandy go ahead. I know the typical right wing response is gonna be get a better job or more skills which have already been addressed but they keep saying the same thing over and over they do not seem to have the ability to think of anything else.
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Old 11-01-2014, 09:08 PM
 
2,666 posts, read 2,220,938 times
Reputation: 5008

That's not the problem. The problem is, dollars are losing value every year, and in fact have lost more than 90 percent over the past century. But wages aren't increasing proportionately. Dollars are just units of value. That's all. Currency value fluctuates.
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Old 11-01-2014, 09:16 PM
 
33,016 posts, read 27,380,365 times
Reputation: 9074
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Yes, it is.

There's tons of arguments, all non-sensical, about why social security is not welfare. One of my favorites is that it's "insurance" as if that has anything to do with welfare. Take a look at ObamaCare. It's insurance. Fun fact: Somewhere around 80% of of ObamaCare policies are receiving subsidies. It's overwhelmingly a welfare program. Is it insurance? Why, sure it is. Is it paid for by taxpayers? Sure, sure, that's where the government gets its money. Is it welfare? You bet.

Putting FICA in a bucket doesn't change anything. And I agree, there's an insurance aspect to it, but that really isn't why it's welfare or why it's not welfare. It's welfare because it's DESIGNED to be a wealth transfer mechanism. Let's say Person A makes $25,000 whereas Person B makes $100,000 a year. Person A at full retirement can expect to take out $1,145 per month. Person B who pays four times as much into the system? $2,575. Why is Person B's benefit roughly $2,000/mo less? Because it's from the ground up a social welfare system. In contrast, Germany's system is straight line. Pay in four times as much, you get four times as much in benefits.

Longevity is positively correlated with income and wealth. Is Social Security welfare for those who die before getting back what they paid in?
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Old 11-01-2014, 09:18 PM
 
10,719 posts, read 20,255,686 times
Reputation: 10021
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakin View Post
Let's keep the borders open and let in another 10-20 Million. Maybe we can then get that 50% up to 70%.
But it's okay if American companies hire illegals to increase their profit margins. It's okay to not pass legislation requiring American companies to use e-verify. The double standard and hypocrisy is most amusing
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Old 11-01-2014, 09:58 PM
 
3,244 posts, read 5,228,494 times
Reputation: 2551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric View Post
Yes, it is. ...
I agree, there's an insurance aspect to it
People pay into social security! Their employees match it. What someone gets in return for an investment is not welfare!
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Old 11-02-2014, 05:54 AM
 
Location: Vallejo
21,704 posts, read 24,935,308 times
Reputation: 18972
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjake54 View Post
People pay into social security! Their employees match it. What someone gets in return for an investment is not welfare!
I pay into food stamps.

If I ever found myself in need of food stamps, I wouldn't be on welfare. I'd be getting a return on investment.
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