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I think you need to spend some time looking at the numbers. Here are a few hard facts:
The per capita income in the US had a slight drop after the start of the recession. In 2008 the amount was $26964 and it dropped to $26530 at the worst of the recession in 2009. The amount is now $28829. The way everyone talks about the economy you would think the numbers would be a lot worse. Instead we have had a long period without much growth, at least until recently.
Prior to the recession the poverty rate was about 13%. That rose to 15%. In 2013, the rate showed a drop to 14.5%. Another drop is expected for 2014.
The average home ownership rate was 64.5% for the time period of 1965-1999. The rate grew to a peak of 69.2% in 2004 and has been declining ever since. The great recession and housing bust had some effect but much less than you would think and today we are about 64.4%. Home ownership seems to be declining for lots of reasons including changes in family structure, higher levels of urbanization and the realization that a house may not be a great investment. Urban living is becoming way more popular and seems to be replacing some of the post WWII suburban living.
It is absolutely NOT true that 60% of Americans are receiving government support just to survive. Many of us have paid into programs and are receiving our benefits. These would include social security, medicare, retirement for Federal workers and military. There are also huge numbers of programs, big and small, which provide benefits not related to welfare or subsistence. The student loan program is one of the biggest and millions have been able to receive those benefits. Of course those are loans that must be repaid and cannot be cancelled even by bankruptcy.
Welfare costs are often cited and some incorrectly believe the increases reflect a failing economy. Costs have indeed increased greatly and regardless of the economy are projected to increase even more. The Obama administration and the Federal government as a whole have greatly expanded assistance programs. There have been major expansions for healthcare for children but lots and lots of other programs have expanded and benefits have become easier to obtain. Partly that has been done as a "stimulus" but most is just a matter of social responsibility. This is not so much an economic issue as it is political. Unwed child birth is now over 40% of all births. Many believe those unwed moms and children need some help. Others want to restrict benefits. You will have to decide for yourself and vote accordingly.
Please note the article you cited is considerably out of date. It was also in my opinion a poor example of slanted, sensational journalism. When you see some statement about high and mid level jobs being "wiped out", you can readily see the sensationalism instead of the facts. You can readily see the real numbers for yourself. Go to the BLS tables and see the current unemployment by job category. You will find a very low unemployment rate for almost any high or mid paid job. The high rates of unemployment are for forestry and truck driving and a whole host of other lower skilled and lower paid jobs.
I do not own any rose colored glasses. I am outside a lot and as I mentioned I see huge numbers of big expensive and new RVs on the road. So I checked the numbers: up 111% since 2009, the increase for 2014 is expected to end the year at about 8.8% and an even higher rate is predicted for 2015. According to the RVIA, strong sales growth is expected due to "the promising future in jobs, incomes and household wealth."
I think you need to spend some time looking at the numbers. Here are a few hard facts:
The per capita income in the US had a slight drop after the start of the recession. In 2008 the amount was $26964 and it dropped to $26530 at the worst of the recession in 2009. The amount is now $28829. The way everyone talks about the economy you would think the numbers would be a lot worse. Instead we have had a long period without much growth, at least until recently.
Prior to the recession the poverty rate was about 13%. That rose to 15%. In 2013, the rate showed a drop to 14.5%. Another drop is expected for 2014.
The average home ownership rate was 64.5% for the time period of 1965-1999. The rate grew to a peak of 69.2% in 2004 and has been declining ever since. The great recession and housing bust had some effect but much less than you would think and today we are about 64.4%. Home ownership seems to be declining for lots of reasons including changes in family structure, higher levels of urbanization and the realization that a house may not be a great investment. Urban living is becoming way more popular and seems to be replacing some of the post WWII suburban living.
It is absolutely NOT true that 60% of Americans are receiving government support just to survive. Many of us have paid into programs and are receiving our benefits. These would include social security, medicare, retirement for Federal workers and military. There are also huge numbers of programs, big and small, which provide benefits not related to welfare or subsistence. The student loan program is one of the biggest and millions have been able to receive those benefits. Of course those are loans that must be repaid and cannot be cancelled even by bankruptcy.
Welfare costs are often cited and some incorrectly believe the increases reflect a failing economy. Costs have indeed increased greatly and regardless of the economy are projected to increase even more. The Obama administration and the Federal government as a whole have greatly expanded assistance programs. There have been major expansions for healthcare for children but lots and lots of other programs have expanded and benefits have become easier to obtain. Partly that has been done as a "stimulus" but most is just a matter of social responsibility. This is not so much an economic issue as it is political. Unwed child birth is now over 40% of all births. Many believe those unwed moms and children need some help. Others want to restrict benefits. You will have to decide for yourself and vote accordingly.
Please note the article you cited is considerably out of date. It was also in my opinion a poor example of slanted, sensational journalism. When you see some statement about high and mid level jobs being "wiped out", you can readily see the sensationalism instead of the facts. You can readily see the real numbers for yourself. Go to the BLS tables and see the current unemployment by job category. You will find a very low unemployment rate for almost any high or mid paid job. The high rates of unemployment are for forestry and truck driving and a whole host of other lower skilled and lower paid jobs.
I do not own any rose colored glasses. I am outside a lot and as I mentioned I see huge numbers of big expensive and new RVs on the road. So I checked the numbers: up 111% since 2009, the increase for 2014 is expected to end the year at about 8.8% and an even higher rate is predicted for 2015. According to the RVIA, strong sales growth is expected due to "the promising future in jobs, incomes and household wealth."
There are lies, damn lies, and the worse lies of all which are statistics. Averages mean nothing as the increases in corporate officers pay has been so egregious that they more than make up for the loss of income of millions of lower paid workers. http://www.pewresearch.org/files/201...bution-310.png
Now look at the impact of inflation in day to day necessities like groceries, utilities, taxes , healthcare, and
transportation costs and how much more these increases impact low income people while having little or no impact on high income people.
Lets look at the honesty of your poverty figures, I see you conveniently leave out the fact that poverty has risen from a low of 11.3% in 2000 to 14.5% now with a high of 15% in 2010. Not quite the same picture you are trying to paint.
Your housing statistics are also deceiving as the "housing recovery" after 2007 was also coined the "Investor Led housing recovery with some 40% to 55% of home purchases being made by investors and not as family principal residences. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...P1GbWfRH7hQrIw
You continue to try to use statistics to promote fallacies and to deceive other readers and I find no reason to discuss this subject with you any further.
I agree about not discussing this further. I went back and did a search on your posts from close to 4 years ago. Back then you argued with others and made the same claims as currently. You cannot see any signs of recovery and you predicted another recession. Well, you were wrong then and continue to be wrong. But you do not want to change your opinions and I certainly place no belief in your opinions so at least we can agree to end this discussion.
very interesting article on what went down at Chase Bank.
I think this recent one is worse, because in early 2003, we had the "jobless recovery" many had not yet recovered from. And we now have to deal with the "global economy" which seems to be leaving many Americans in the dust. Many corporations offshore the most menial of tasks. And they are offshoring the once-well paying jobs of STEM.
I agree about not discussing this further. I went back and did a search on your posts from close to 4 years ago. Back then you argued with others and made the same claims as currently. You cannot see any signs of recovery and you predicted another recession. Well, you were wrong then and continue to be wrong. But you do not want to change your opinions and I certainly place no belief in your opinions so at least we can agree to end this discussion.
You're only going to be able to disseminate your disinformation, B.S. government statistics, and general falsehood about the true state of the economy for only a little longer.
We're not that far away now. The government can only paper over and disseminate lies for an increasingly finite number of days before the gig is up:
Your chart does not include 1980's data, or 1930's data. When we can see all three together, maybe a truer picture might be revealed.
I'm going of the top of my head reading of unemployment data of all three periods. All three had stubbornly high unemployment, even when the economies were more or less in recovery.
The difference Obama has over Reagan or Roosevelt is that Obama has a huge number of SSA and SSDA people off the work rolls, so has an employment picture that is improving in no small part to a lower labor participation rate.
My graphs went back to the year 1967 smart one. Yes, they did include 1980s data.
And you won't find any data on unemployment in the 30s because there is none. Unemployment was not calculated in this country until the 40s. There is no data for the 30s.
Last edited by CravingMountains; 11-28-2014 at 11:31 AM..
You're only going to be able to disseminate your disinformation, B.S. government statistics, and general falsehood about the true state of the economy for only a little longer.
We're not that far away now. The government can only paper over and disseminate lies for an increasingly finite number of days before the gig is up:
You have done a nice job of assembling videos from what I consider to be true crackpots with all sorts of alarmist and conspiracy theories. I see no reason to debate any of this. I suggest a different plan instead. Please bookmark this discussion. A few days from now when "the gig is up" you can post this again and you will clearly be able to demonstrate that I was wrong and only disseminated disinformation, BS statistics and general falsehoods.
Before I start holding my breath, do you really mean a "finite" number of days, or should might I need to wait a few weeks or months?
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