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Ok, I'm not following this whole thread, so forgive me if I just jump in with my 2 cents---
IMO, the reason people are in so much debt is because they use debt for everday purchases, like gas, food, clothes, etc. Before we had universal charge cards, like Visa and MasterCharge (that's not a typo, it was called MasterCharge back then), well, we paid cash, or wrote a check, or did without. Nowadays, we swipe the plastic for everything, thinking it somehow will come back to us in frequent flyer miles, or whatever Most cards start accruing interest from the POS---point of sale---and, of course, one needs a credit card to shop online.
If one carries cash, one is limited to what's in their pocket. Sometimes we are forced into making decisions, like do we really need soda pop, or can we just use water? I used to fear carrying cash, what if I lost it? Or I would look like a drug dealer, pulling out a wad of bills, etc. Ok, look, if I lose it, I lose it, just don't carry more than I plan to spend, say, $100. That's better than the hassle and headache of a stolen credit card! If my food budget is $100, I literally force myself to stay within that, not, oh, well, its only another $5. Best part is, no interest!
Of course, for bigger purchases, and traveling, one does need a credit card or two, just monitor them carefully. But I now carry cash for gas, food, etc If I shop online, I use a pre-paid debit card, that way I'm limited, and reduce the risk of fraud. Yes, I know, there's fees involved with PP debit cards, but better than the interest!
My advice---kepp two credit cards open for traveling, emergencies, etc, but don't use them for your everyday source of exchange!
we would buy a co-op here in bay terrace. the place we are interested in if we do would run us about 8k a year in maintenance . there is a flip tax that helps keep the maintenance low. those who leave help pay for those who stay.
I have owned as investments or lived in co-ops off and on for many years now. to be honest life has been pretty transparent as far as rules for us.
even the co-ops we own by central park have not been a problem even as far as hindering
sales.
I am curious why you picked bay terrace. I know the Little Neck bay is pretty but it seems to be a very congested area and not that convenient to the City.
Ok, I'm not following this whole thread, so forgive me if I just jump in with my 2 cents---
IMO, the reason people are in so much debt is because they use debt for everday purchases, like gas, food, clothes, etc. Before we had universal charge cards, like Visa and MasterCharge (that's not a typo, it was called MasterCharge back then), well, we paid cash, or wrote a check, or did without. Nowadays, we swipe the plastic for everything, thinking it somehow will come back to us in frequent flyer miles, or whatever Most cards start accruing interest from the POS---point of sale---and, of course, one needs a credit card to shop online.
If one carries cash, one is limited to what's in their pocket. Sometimes we are forced into making decisions, like do we really need soda pop, or can we just use water? I used to fear carrying cash, what if I lost it? Or I would look like a drug dealer, pulling out a wad of bills, etc. Ok, look, if I lose it, I lose it, just don't carry more than I plan to spend, say, $100. That's better than the hassle and headache of a stolen credit card! If my food budget is $100, I literally force myself to stay within that, not, oh, well, its only another $5. Best part is, no interest!
Of course, for bigger purchases, and traveling, one does need a credit card or two, just monitor them carefully. But I now carry cash for gas, food, etc If I shop online, I use a pre-paid debit card, that way I'm limited, and reduce the risk of fraud. Yes, I know, there's fees involved with PP debit cards, but better than the interest!
My advice---kepp two credit cards open for traveling, emergencies, etc, but don't use them for your everyday source of exchange!
The points are indeed a major positive. I can fly around the world a few times with my points and I have not spent anything extra to get those points.
I have never seen a credit card where interest started to accrue immediately. Pay the bill monthly and there is no interest.
To me plastic is a convenient form for payment. I often go months without stopping at a bank (or writing a check.) I don't abuse it. I never buy something with a card as a form of financing. I am cheap and careful with my money, but I never ever budget. Even when I was young and broke I did not budget. If the difference between tap water and the cost of a can of soda is important to you, then I can indeed see the logic of avoiding the use of credit cards.
There is no hassle or headache with a lost or stolen card. I call immediately. Use another card instead and have a new card in the mail within a couple of days. There is virtually no concern about fraud. By law you are not responsible.
I have tried debt cards but see only disadvantages. I am not sure about the laws regarding fraud, but regardless of the laws once someone fraudulently uses your card the money has been pulled from your account and you need to try to reclaim it. With a credit card no money is withdrawn from your accounts. With credit cards I can arrange for a low limit. I tend to have a substantial amount of money sitting in my bank cash account. I would need to open and maintain a separate account with a much smaller balance.
my wife has lived here 35 years and I am here 12 years with her . we love the area ,the restaurants ,the shopping, the jogging path ,etc..
the city is a piece of cake ,we can walk to the LIRR and it is a 22 minute ride to penn station.
I wish we had better subway access to other areas but I rarely need to take a train anyway..
Makes sense. I did not realize the train was that convenient.
Considering that we are not that far from each other, I sometimes marvel at the difference in lifestyle. You can get on the train and be in the City in a few minutes. For me that is a major hassle. On the other hand, this morning I walked to my photography classes at Stony Brook U and later on practiced archery in my backyard.
From the article, it stated that consumer debt is the problem.
Credit card balances that are high, and stay high,
GSL which are high, the colleges are enjoying that,
Car loans, I don't know anyone who can buy a car cash,
it's really not the loan that is the problem.
It's the price of a car.
Credit cards are to be handled only by people who know how
to use them wisely. Like a scalple to a surgeon.
GSL are a necessary eviel to everyone who wants a population
that can run the country.
Car loans are a neccesity, unless you are a mechanic and can
spend half of your day fixing your old beater.
These really wouldn't be that much of a problem if the
basic neccesities to survive weren't so expensive.
Rent, mortgage, food, utilities, that is where all of the money
if spent in a family budget today.
Wages are really low, then add the high cost of surviving,
well, your going to have a lot of credit card debt, just to get
by.
Also, taking into acount that 48 to 49 percent of the American
population do't even make enough to pay Federal income taxes,
WOW.
Wages will go up when the sales go down so low that companies
start going out of business.
That is unfortunately what it is going to take.
Housing prices will go down when people stop buying homes.
The demand will cease, you wait and see.
Only this time, (I'm refering to homes), people will just not by
because there aren't fraud mortgages this time around like in 2005.
You can't get blood from a stone.
Even IF real estate appreciates at around the pace of inflation (historic appreciation is actually slightly higher than inflation ~3% per year vs. just over ~2% per year), at the very least it's a vehicle for savings via the equity built up with each mortgage payment.
In many areas you can build more equity renting and investing the difference between owning and renting into low-cost stock index mutual funds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShampooBanana
Plus there's the added utility of it, you know, providing a place to live.
Renting and investing the difference also gives you a place to live.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShampooBanana
Agree on your pointing out the fallacy in confusing correlation with causation, although comparing to buying a yacht is a poor and extreme example. It's a depreciating asset while a home is on average an appreciating one.
Yes, it was an extreme example chosen to illustrate the fact that one must be cautious in making such inferences , that's all.
From the article, it stated that consumer debt is the problem.
The problem being addressed was three common examples of consumer debt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Butterfly4u
Credit card balances that are high, and stay high,
GSL which are high, the colleges are enjoying that,
Car loans, I don't know anyone who can buy a car cash,
it's really not the loan that is the problem.
It's the price of a car.
A lack of discipline if they don't have enough money. If you can make a car payment then you can save to pay cash instead. Even if one has car payments, the key is to pay a little extra to retire a loan early and then save the full amount each month, including the extra, after paying it off. After a few years unless you put a crazy number of miles on your cars each year or fail to maintain it properly, you should be able to pay cash for the next one before the current one gets too unreliable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Butterfly4u
Credit cards are to be handled only by people who know how
to use them wisely. Like a scalple to a surgeon.
GSL are a necessary eviel to everyone who wants a population
that can run the country.
Car loans are a neccesity, unless you are a mechanic and can
spend half of your day fixing your old beater.
Nonsense. Owning a car is expensive. If you can make a payment then you could have saved up instead, unless your income was lower before you bought the car than it is afterwards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Butterfly4u
These really wouldn't be that much of a problem if the
basic neccesities to survive weren't so expensive.
Rent, mortgage, food, utilities, that is where all of the money
if spent in a family budget today.
Wages are really low, then add the high cost of surviving,
well, your going to have a lot of credit card debt, just to get
by.
Or you could decide to live within your means...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Butterfly4u
Also, taking into acount that 48 to 49 percent of the American
population do't even make enough to pay Federal income taxes,
WOW.
Wages will go up when the sales go down so low that companies
start going out of business.
That is unfortunately what it is going to take.
Housing prices will go down when people stop buying homes.
The demand will cease, you wait and see.
Only this time, (I'm refering to homes), people will just not by
because there aren't fraud mortgages this time around like in 2005.
You can't get blood from a stone.
Makes sense. I did not realize the train was that convenient.
Considering that we are not that far from each other, I sometimes marvel at the difference in lifestyle. You can get on the train and be in the City in a few minutes. For me that is a major hassle. On the other hand, this morning I walked to my photography classes at Stony Brook U and later on practiced archery in my backyard.
i used to go to queens archey alot.
only thing i wish is that we had an LIRR that went east. only the city is really accessable from here by train..
there are times i just would have liked to jump on the train and let them take us out to the hamptons in the summer.
so with the grandkids now all here in ny we are not leaving .
so i am watching the rent increases carefully and i would think in the near future it will be worth giving up the income on the investments and trading it for lower housing costs by buying a co-op in the area.
this why i say one is deluding themselves when you think the home you live in is generating the rent you are not getting. it is not and it costs you money. in fact the cost is really the market rent you are not getting by consuming it yourself. all it really happens to be is a means of cost cutting and that has the effect of improving cash flow. at no point is your income any higher .
corporations are judged by profits and revenues. profits can come from cost cutting as well as revenue growth . but cost cutting has a bottom from which no more cash flow can be found. increases in income can be limitless and that is why there is a big difference between the two even though the net effect appears the same at times..
Last edited by mathjak107; 12-01-2014 at 04:38 PM..
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Most cards start accruing interest from the POS---point of sale---and, of course, one needs a credit card to shop online. 
I used to fear carrying cash, what if I lost it? Or I would look like a drug dealer, pulling out a wad of bills, etc. Ok, look, if I lose it, I lose it, just don't carry more than I plan to spend, say, $100. That's better than the hassle and headache of a stolen credit card! If my food budget is $100, I literally force myself to stay within that, not, oh, well, its only another $5. Best part is, no interest!
