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So long as you look to someone else to give you something in life you will be a failure and a parasite.
It is only through self reliance and independence that a person can obtain security and self respect.
What a narrow view of life and society you do not understand that there are many reasons people need help it is not always your fault but I doubt you will get it you want to keep being ignorant and think everyone can just do better.
The reason immigrants can take these low jobs is because they get apartments and stuff as many people as they can into the apartment. The reason immigrants can find jobs that Americans can not find jobs is many employers will hire immigrants before Americans because immigrants will work cheap and not leave for another job.
People, including immigrants, and decide if they want to stay or leave for another job and if they want to except low pay. You cannot blame them for doing that just because you want more. If you want more, you will go out there and try to get more.
None of that made sense. Higher wages = less demand = more automation
Each mcdonalds will be manned by 1 person if you raised minimum wage to 20 dollars/hr
That won't help McDonald's as much as you think. That's just more McDonald's employees on unemployment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational
I'd rather that they work... but that isn't really an option. Is it?
And especially not at outrageously high wage rates.
But they ARE working...
Minimum wage doesn't go to people who don't work
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational
Imposing an ever higher MW is just another name for welfare.
It's been argued that most of the current MW is imposed welfare.
Show me arguments about how a mandated WAGE floor is equivalent to welfare. People who working for a living are not the same as welfare pigs. The one's that work only still get welfare because their wages are too low.
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Originally Posted by jimhcom
Stupid statement.
Even smarter response.
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Originally Posted by Hemlock140
Then what happens when the gas prices go back up to $4 or even $5/gallon in a year or two? I have no problem with tying the minimum wage to the rate of inflation as we do here in WA state, currently $9.32 and going up January 1st to $9.47, about what it should be. Jumping from $10 to $15 in two years is a
50% increase, and that is devastating to any company that has a large number of low wage, unskilled employees as in retail and fast food. I would rather they work than collect welfare, and if they can't or won't improve their skills to get a better job, I'd like to see them get paid the equivalent of welfare but have to work for it. Unfortunately the unions will prevent them from doing things like repairing potholes, weeding city/state/county property, painting over graffiti and other useful work.
What the hell do you people not understand? People who are on minimum wageare working.
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Originally Posted by Costaexpress
You want to know what is the practical minimum wage? Take a look at immigrants who risk their lives crossing the desert into the United States. A lot of these immigrants do not speak the language, do not have documentation, and often do not know anyone in this country. But what they have is ambition. That ambition drives them to start a new life in the United States. If these people can even find jobs that are supposed to leave nonexistent for our hard-working nativeborn Americans then there is really no excuse for these hard working nativeborn Americans who claim that they can't find a job.
The whole thing about unemployment is missing the critical point. That is a lot of people are unemployed not because they can't find a job but because they're picky. If people in other countries are like Americans today those countries would have enormous unemployment rates as well. Thereis a lot of subjectivity in the so-called unemployment situation.
I would always hire immigrants compared to entitled Americans.
You would hire immigrants because you want people who will work for peanuts and a penny.
Minimum wage doesn't go to people who don't work
What the hell do you people not understand? People who are on minimum wageare working.
What don't YOU understand?
The principle reason that the currently employed (at MW and even a bit higher)
aren't earning more now --beyond half of them not being worth what they are getting now--
is because they are so easily replaced by the MILLIONS who aren't working.
Raise the MW to any substantial degree and THAT number will rise dramatically.
Do something ELSE about those MILLIONS and wage rates will find their market level.
Those jobs will also demand better conditions and training and real advancement.
The principle reason that the currently employed (at MW and even a bit higher)
aren't earning more now --beyond half of them not being worth what they are getting now--
is because they are so easily replaced by the MILLIONS who aren't working.
Raise the MW to any substantial degree and THAT number will rise dramatically.
Do something ELSE about those MILLIONS and wage rates will find their market level.
Those jobs will also demand better conditions and training and real advancement.
Do you have any facts to support that instead of rhetoric?
Minimum wage historically has no correlation to unemployment rates. In fact, the states that increased minimum wage since the recession have had better job growth than the states that did not.
Historically the US had an ABUNDANCE of no and low skilled jobs.
More than enough to go around. That isn't the case today and it's only getting worse.
Really? How much of that job growth was at the no/low skilled end of the labor market?
States that have had better job growth needed to raise their MW's
in order to keep/attract people to the crappy jobs.
When people say "historically" or "studies show" they often reference studis and opinions published by ideologically charged entities, including researchers, funding sources, institutional political leanings, connections. These reports, studies, surveys, serve to build credibility that ordinary voters take at face value, when each study is conducted with specific goals and often political bias. Many of these sources come from financial motives, electoral interests, you name it. You must take it with a grain of salt.
Our citizens are not good at that. They are especially vulnerable to the lefts emotional appeal. Yet this rhetoric often has clear motives to gain power and control over other people. To say that they are for the poor and disenfranchised is enormously naive.
A practical minimum wage would be one that pays someone with, say, a high school education, enough to raise a family on (living costs, housing + utiltiies, transportation, and medical expenses). A true minimal wage as a living wage should cover all that.
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
44,146 posts, read 80,258,802 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayton Sux
A practical minimum wage would be one that pays someone with, say, a high school education, enough to raise a family on (living costs, housing + utiltiies, transportation, and medical expenses). A true minimal wage as a living wage should cover all that.
With some notable exceptions, people with only a high school educations are just not able to provide enough value to employers to justify a salary high enough to raise a family on. Family-wage jobs are not as
available as they used to be, one has to be prepared to compete, and if not, live with roommates or marry someone who has a good job. I don't know why it's so hard to understand that minimum wage jobs are not and have never been meant to be enough to raise a family.
My first job in the late 1960s was at $1.75/hour, minimum wage at the time was $1.65. I was in high school, living with my parents. When I moved out and got my first apartment I was in college, making $3 when the minimum was $2, and even then (33% over minimum) I couldn't have raised a family on that. When I did start a family in 1979 minimum was $3.10 but I was making $7.50.
A practical minimum wage would be one that pays someone with, say, a high school education, enough to raise a family on (living costs, housing + utiltiies, transportation, and medical expenses). A true minimal wage as a living wage should cover all that.
It doesn't cost a lot to live with roommates+electric/gas, cost much to use a bus/walk/bike, and medical expenses, yeah that one's out of control but when it can rack up in the millions, no amount will cover that without insurance. And insurance itself isn't too bad either now with subsidies from ACA.
Your definition of "living" wage is having a hummer + new phones + cable tv + vacation trips + lobsters? At least define what you mean by it besides through out terms that are vague because no one has the same living costs. What kind of living do you imagine you can afford on minimum wage? No need for an actual budget since it changes from location to location. I can figure out the costs too. I just want to know what you want to live with. Married, with 10 kids? Living in a 3 bedroom house on 1 acre? Single with 2 kids? What kind of utilities do you want? What kind of transportations? Do you cook your own meals, or buy it from someone else? ETC Saying things like housing + utilities + medical doesn't amount to me. It's like me saying I want a sandwich with bread+meat+cheese, doesn't say much of the quality of sandwich I'll get
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