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Old 12-24-2014, 07:34 AM
 
7,899 posts, read 7,112,201 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valsteele View Post
No it's more like "be born with rich parents and you will earn a good living".
You are bringing up a really important point. In fact your frown face brings up a second point that is equally important.

First, you don't have to come from a rich family to succeed. It really, really helps to come from a stable family situation; for example, a traditional two parent family. It really, really helps if those parents are successful and educated and take the interest to help with the child's development including a respect and love of learning, self confidence and initiative. It also helps if those parents are ambitious and have a strong work ethic. Coming from a wealthy household can often be a detriment with kids who feel entitled and are lazy.

You frown face brings up another point. If you come from a disadvantaged household it is easy to blame others for your lack of success. Blaming others paves the way to apathy and failure. It is easy to develop a sense of hopelessness that prevents the individual from growing, improving and succeeding. It is often impossible to do what it takes to succeed. That is called breaking the cycle of poverty. Many, many do but it can be difficult and requires self confidence, education, hard work and a positive attitude. My suggestion would be to get rid of the frown face and spend some effort on improving your life and career.

BTW, there is a big difference between work and a career. Think about it.
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Old 12-24-2014, 08:12 AM
 
11,768 posts, read 10,262,817 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrkliny View Post
You are bringing up a really important point. In fact your frown face brings up a second point that is equally important.

First, you don't have to come from a rich family to succeed. It really, really helps to come from a stable family situation; for example, a traditional two parent family. It really, really helps if those parents are successful and educated and take the interest to help with the child's development including a respect and love of learning, self confidence and initiative. It also helps if those parents are ambitious and have a strong work ethic. Coming from a wealthy household can often be a detriment with kids who feel entitled and are lazy.

You frown face brings up another point. If you come from a disadvantaged household it is easy to blame others for your lack of success. Blaming others paves the way to apathy and failure. It is easy to develop a sense of hopelessness that prevents the individual from growing, improving and succeeding. It is often impossible to do what it takes to succeed. That is called breaking the cycle of poverty. Many, many do but it can be difficult and requires self confidence, education, hard work and a positive attitude. My suggestion would be to get rid of the frown face and spend some effort on improving your life and career.

BTW, there is a big difference between work and a career. Think about it.
You missed his/her point. In the USA, your success and how much money you make is highly correlated to how successful your parents are and how much money your parents make. Now, the USA isn't the worst country and it is possible to move out of poverty, but your chances are lower here than in most countries. Basically, if you want a more equal playing field you need to move to Canada, Australia, N. Zealand, or most any European country.
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Old 12-24-2014, 08:40 AM
 
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I totally understand the point. There is a strong correlation. Kids from wealthier and more advantaged households are way more likely to succeed. The question is what is holding back the kid from the disadvantaged household? Why do kids in the ghetto drop out of high school and hang around on the streets with nothing to do? Why do they continue to live in those neighborhoods with no jobs available except for selling drugs? When they do go to school, why do they harass the teachers instead of being willing to learn? Why don't the parents step in and put a stop to these behaviors?

If I had cut school even once, my parents would have been all over me. If my grades were not good, they were there trying to help and figure out what went wrong. When summer came and school was out, I did not just hang out. They had me working or volunteering or doing odd jobs for pay or for free. When my kids were young, we had very little money. We still expected them to do well in school. They got rewards and encouragement for doing these right and they also got penalties and discipline for their mistakes. Success is not just about coming from a household with money.
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Old 12-24-2014, 08:51 AM
 
28,895 posts, read 54,157,635 times
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You know what? I'm really tired of this kind of rhetoric. The road is pretty clear for anyone, and I mean anyone, who wants to make a good living:

1) Go to school and do the work.
2) Get a job, show up on time, and try to do your best.
3) Postpone having children until you're in a stable relationship.
4) Continually develop yourself as a person with new contacts, new knowledge, and new ability.
5) Don't blow every dime you make.

It doesn't matter where you come from. I grew up in a well-to-do suburb, but I have acquaintances who have completely fallen off the path in life and now live in poverty. I have colleagues who came from the inner cities and had hair-raising childhoods but have made successes of themselves.

Sure there's inequality of income. But if you're telling me that someone who busted his ass in school to become a mechanical engineer or started a business or just made wise decisions in his or her career day after day somehow is being compensated unfairly compared to someone who didn't do those things, then I'll just laugh in your face.

One of my colleagues lived through a terrible childhood. She was shunted from from one family member to another, studied in inner-city schools, and never had any advantages in life. Today she has an MBA and enjoys a white-hot career. One night on the road, she and several other of us were having dinner when some well-meaning nebbish started up with that "unequal income /unequal opportunity" crap she had cribbed from the Utne Reader or some such. By the time this woman had done with her, the other woman was a quivering mass. "When you tell me that people like me can't succeed, then you're just a bigot," was the main thing I remember her saying.
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Old 12-24-2014, 09:16 AM
 
7,899 posts, read 7,112,201 times
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cpg, very nice summary. Maybe a few of the complainers will realize that they need to make an effort to succeed.

I do think you missed one very important point. I see some people posting here who complain they just cannot find a decent job (and all of society and economics should change to meet their needs). They you realize they are from the middle of some depressed, rural backwater area. Sometimes it is just plain essential to move. That can mean leaving the family birth area and leaving friends and family. That can be a tough decision for some and they just will not move to another area.
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Old 12-24-2014, 09:25 AM
 
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The transition from a manufacturing economy to a service economy started before Obama became president, so I don't see why people blame him for explosion in low wage job growth. It would've happened no matter who was Prez
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Old 12-24-2014, 09:34 AM
 
Location: Phoenix
30,369 posts, read 19,162,886 times
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While I think most peope agree with the ideal to make income more equalized, most people also realize that when government dictates too much to business, the results are disastrous.

I´m in favor of an increase in the minimum wage as an effort to more equalize incomes but I don´t want to negatively impact business which is counter to what you hope to accomplish. I will say the minimum wage in our state has benefitted many but doesn´t seem to hampered business to a great degree. Incremental increases are probably the way to go.

As far as CEO pay, I wish it was based on more than an incentive to increase the stock value but that seems to be the promary factor.
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Old 12-24-2014, 10:13 AM
 
Location: Bronx
16,200 posts, read 23,045,839 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Feltser View Post
And We Don't Know It



We Are the Most Unequal Society in the Developed World... And We Don't Know It*|*Les Leopold

We need, expect, and will demonstrate until we get a workable playing field that allows average Americans some better way of living than part time, low paying, no benefits jobs while CEOs and wealthy people continue to rake in profits from the work citizens do now on the cheap. Salaries today are not keeping up with the prices of food, clothing, rent, and every high cost of living and if you think wealthy people care about your problem of meeting expenses of living, think again.... They are the people that put us where we are today
This is nothing new, and its getting worse. What I suggest is a new 3rd reactionary and populist political party. Democrats and Republicans in DC and state capitols are runned by Wall Street gangs.
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Old 12-24-2014, 10:30 AM
 
7,899 posts, read 7,112,201 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronxguyanese View Post
This is nothing new, and its getting worse. What I suggest is a new 3rd reactionary and populist political party. Democrats and Republicans in DC and state capitols are runned by Wall Street gangs.
And what would be the platform for the populist party? Try to return to the old era of isolationism, unions, featherbedding and corruption? You cannot turn back the clock.

"Wall Street gangs" That sounds like the mafia. Can you identify any of these gangs and name specific gang members? What illegal and unethical behaviors are they responsible for?
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Old 12-24-2014, 10:49 AM
 
Location: Montana
522 posts, read 695,201 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigboibob View Post
an 18 year old can get an engineering degree and make 70k out of college(4yrs) and close to six figures after 5 years.

Should everyone be millionaires instantly?
How do they pay for that degree? Mommy and Daddy's money? Student loans that they will never pay off? In Europe college is cheap and/or free but here it's astronomical.
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