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It took a horrible decade-long depression and apocalyptic world war to resolve the inequality problem last time. It will probably require the same "solution" this time too.
It took a horrible decade-long depression and apocalyptic world war to resolve the inequality problem last time. It will probably require the same "solution" this time too.
Nope. It's really not that hard.
Increase taxes on the high-income earners.
Tax investment income the same as labor.
Knock off the giveaways to Wall street.
Forgive all Student Loans.
Make Higher Education tuition-free.
The solutions aren't hard.. we just sell our politicians to the highest bidder.
Increase taxes on the high-income earners.
Tax investment income the same as labor.
Knock off the giveaways to Wall street.
Forgive all Student Loans.
Make Higher Education tuition-free.
The solutions aren't hard.. we just sell our politicians to the highest bidder.
Sounds like a prescription for utterly destroying the economy. Let's go one-by one.
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Increase taxes on the high-income earners.
The rich already pay a disproportionate amount of money compared to their income. Do you really want to discourage people from from working their way up even more than they already are?
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Tax investment income the same as labor.
In other words, you don't want people investing? How do new businesses get started? How can existing business grow? How do we get more jobs? Through investors. Investing is already the only way to get a decent return on your money. Do you want to end that too?
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Knock off the giveaways to Wall street.
I assume you mean bail-outs and subsidies? Fully with you here - no one should get a free lunch.
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Forgive all Student Loans.
What about the people like me who lived in a studio apartment out of college and didn't spend much in order to pay off their student debt? I'm now living debt-free. Are you going to reward those who were financially irresponsible?
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Make Higher Education tuition-free
So the only way to get a decent job will be to get a PhD? A bachelor's is already a minimum standard for any decent job. You're simply causing education be be even more devalued.
It's pretty simple:
If you tax something, you discourage it
If you give something away, you devalue it.
Think about the consequences of what you're suggesting. For example, rather than making higher education free, you might think about why it is expensive, or better yet why it is necessary at all. Why do people need to spend 4 years and boatloads of money to get a piece of paper, when they forget everything after they leave school? Why do we have so many more administrators, and school gyms, and sports teams, and worthless "required" classes today? What is the real point of education? But this kind of thinking isn't politically expedient.
The solutions aren't hard.. we just sell our politicians to the highest bidder.
This is a really stupid idea which will do nothing to address the so-called problem you think you see.
It will:
Lead to increased costs for college education
At the margin, more students who will not benefit economically from a college education will go to college
Raise taxes driving even more industries to move to lower tax environments
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
44,298 posts, read 80,577,144 times
Reputation: 57278
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Originally Posted by Cnynrat
This is a really stupid idea which will do nothing to address the so-called problem you think you see.
It will:
Lead to increased costs for college education
At the margin, more students who will not benefit economically from a college education will go to college
Raise taxes driving even more industries to move to lower tax environments
I don't care how much you raise taxes, there will not be enough money to operate colleges tuition-free. If
it were possible, the same problems will exist that the new presidential plan for free community college will present. Not nearly enough room for the numbers of students. Even now people are turned down and need the highest grades, test scores and maybe even community service and interviews to be accepted, in addition to the $10,000-40,000+ tuition.
Sounds like a prescription for utterly destroying the economy. Let's go one-by one.
The rich already pay a disproportionate amount of money compared to their income. Do you really want to discourage people from from working their way up even more than they already are?
Please provide evidence for your thesis.
You are arguing that taxing the rich discourages people from trying to get rich.
Laughable.
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Originally Posted by RecentGrad1
In other words, you don't want people investing? How do new businesses get started? How can existing business grow? How do we get more jobs? Through investors. Investing is already the only way to get a decent return on your money. Do you want to end that too?
I didn't propose that at all. I said stop giving favorable treatment to investment income, which is predicated on loosely regulated financial speculation. We get more jobs by increasing consumer demand, not pampering Wall Street jerk offs.
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Originally Posted by RecentGrad1
I assume you mean bail-outs and subsidies? Fully with you here - no one should get a free lunch.
Correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RecentGrad1
What about the people like me who lived in a studio apartment out of college and didn't spend much in order to pay off their student debt? I'm now living debt-free. Are you going to reward those who were financially irresponsible?
Do you want a cookie?
My proposals are what's best for the economy, not to pat people on the ass. That's what your parents are for; not public policy.
It is bad policy to discourage education. The way we fund higher education discourages education. If we want to encourage higher education, we need to either pay students to go to school or offer free tuition. Other developed countries are already implementing this. Do they know something we don't?
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Originally Posted by RecentGrad1
So the only way to get a decent job will be to get a PhD? A bachelor's is already a minimum standard for any decent job. You're simply causing education be be even more devalued.
As I said in another thread, education is not synonymous with job training. Education is to develop critical critical thinking skills that can help you in your profession and help society advance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RecentGrad1
It's pretty simple:
If you tax something, you discourage it
If you give something away, you devalue it.
Think about the consequences of what you're suggesting. For example, rather than making higher education free, you might think about why it is expensive, or better yet why it is necessary at all. Why do people need to spend 4 years and boatloads of money to get a piece of paper, when they forget everything after they leave school? Why do we have so many more administrators, and school gyms, and sports teams, and worthless "required" classes today? What is the real point of education? But this kind of thinking isn't politically expedient.
I am well aware of why higher education is expensive and necessary. It is expensive because our political system allows the government to subsidize private institutions that are selling a service much like anything else. Privatized education has never led to any result other than widening the gap between the rich and the poor. It creates a scenario where education becomes dependent on the wealth of the parents. But you're okay with this scenario.
College education should be tuition free, and every student in this country should strive to reach the highest levels of education. College is not a jobs training program, as I've said before.
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Originally Posted by MrRational
Well, it's not hard to write down some ideas.
And if your magic wand is in good order you might even be able to
wave all of those several VERY complicated changes into existence all at once.
However, back in the real world... not quite.
"back in the real world" you still have no argument.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cnynrat
This is a really stupid idea which will do nothing to address the so-called problem you think you see.
It will:
Lead to increased costs for college education
At the margin, more students who will not benefit economically from a college education will go to college
Raise taxes driving even more industries to move to lower tax environments
Not really. If every student has access to a public college education, what happens to the cost of privatized colleges?
Wait, do you still believe that Federal spending depends on Federal tax revenue? Nice idea, but completely fallacious. The federal government is monetarily sovereign; it can pay any bill of any size at any time. It issues an order to the commercial bank to credit the account of the party in question. Poof!
I don't care how much you raise taxes, there will not be enough money to operate colleges tuition-free. If
it were possible, the same problems will exist that the new presidential plan for free community college will present. Not nearly enough room for the numbers of students. Even now people are turned down and need the highest grades, test scores and maybe even community service and interviews to be accepted, in addition to the $10,000-40,000+ tuition.
Public colleges there absolutely will be. The Federal government is not limited in the amount of dollars it can create. Do you think the Federal government can "run out of money?" The states aren't footing the bill for these free-tuition plans...
You are arguing that taxing the rich discourages people from trying to get rich.
Laughable.
If I double my income but net no additional money, why would I want to work more to increase my income? This is the problem with a progressive tax rate. The more you increase taxes on higher incomes, the less motivated people are to make that additional income. And oftentimes obtaining that additional income will require employing another person, which means more jobs.
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Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated
I didn't propose that at all. I said stop giving favorable treatment to investment income, which is predicated on loosely regulated financial speculation. We get more jobs by increasing consumer demand, not pampering Wall Street jerk offs.
Business doesn't work without money invested in it. Trust me on this one - I work in business.
And it's not just Wall Street investors. I've got money in the market too. So do you, probably. What do you plan to do with that money when it no longer is profitable to hold it due to taxes? Depend on Social Security in your retirement? Good luck with that.
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Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated
It is bad policy to discourage education.
Citation needed. I think most jobs today that "require" a college degree do not actually need one. And the skills of reading, writing and arithmetic used to be learned by the end of 8th grade. Nowadays many high school graduates don't seem to have these skills. There's something deeply wrong with our education system, and giving students free college won't fix it.
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Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated
The way we fund higher education discourages education. If we want to encourage higher education, we need to either pay students to go to school or offer free tuition.
The college education system is wasteful, corrupt, and broken. I see no reason to continue to fund this system. What about moving beyond an education system that hasn't changed since the ancient Greeks to a 21st century system of learning?
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Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated
Other developed countries are already implementing this. Do they know something we don't?
Ah, the Bandwagon Fallacy. Just because everything else is doing it doesn't mean it's correct? I thought we had grown up and didn't suffer from peer pressure anymore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated
As I said in another thread, education is not synonymous with job training. Education is to develop critical critical thinking skills that can help you in your profession and help society advance.
I am well aware of why higher education is expensive and necessary.
You've yet to prove that it's necessary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated
It is expensive because our political system allows the government to subsidize private institutions that are selling a service much like anything else. Privatized education has never led to any result other than widening the gap between the rich and the poor. It creates a scenario where education becomes dependent on the wealth of the parents. But you're okay with this scenario.
College education should be tuition free, and every student in this country should strive to reach the highest levels of education. College is not a jobs training program, as I've said before.
Education can be obtained outside of the 4 walls of a university education. I've found I've learned far more outside of college than in. And while I learned quite a bit in college, it was due to my attitude of being a lifelong learner, not due the the education itself.
You can't force people to think critically if they don't want to. And college doesn't change that one way or the other.
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