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Old 01-10-2015, 06:11 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
38,936 posts, read 23,722,875 times
Reputation: 14125

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoopLV View Post
How do you propose who gets to go to the good schools? And who becomes a pipe fitter? I suppose it should be all based on ability to pay, right?

Meanwhile, the kid whose main accomplishment in high school was burning down the physics lab gets a full ride to an Ivy League school because daddy bought the school a building.

I don't expect life to be fair. But I expect that students today should have at least the same opportunity that I had. They don't. There's no way to spin that.
This is the problem and too many people have their heads in the sand to realize it or just blame it on the individual.

 
Old 01-10-2015, 06:13 PM
 
1,603 posts, read 1,875,324 times
Reputation: 2065
I don't know in the US, but the title's part regarding "millennials" definitely apply to Italy:
1) Unemployment rate is the highest since 1977 (13,4 %) whereas Youth unemployment is the highest ever (43.9 %)
2) Italian economy is into the deepest recession ever met in its history
3) taxes are overburdening people (sometimes on enterprises they reach up to 85 % of total income)
4) corruption is making the country fester
5) Globalization, the new job market (stages, apprenticeship, "trial-contract", "trial-period", "stage-contract", temporary work etc), immigration
6) Decades of crazy spending have brought Italian debt to a tragic level (136 % of GDP): it started to dramatically increase in late '70s . I was born in 1993, yet I'll pay the consequences of this increase.

Said this, "seniors" aren't that well-off either.
 
Old 01-10-2015, 06:15 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
67,666 posts, read 60,197,371 times
Reputation: 100994
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoopLV View Post
How do you propose who gets to go to the good schools? And who becomes a pipe fitter? I suppose it should be all based on ability to pay, right?

Meanwhile, the kid whose main accomplishment in high school was burning down the physics lab gets a full ride to an Ivy League school because daddy bought the school a building.

I don't expect life to be fair. But I expect that students today should have at least the same opportunity that I had. They don't. There's no way to spin that.
Interesting. Actually the percentage of people with a college degree in the US has risen in the past few years.

Percentage of Americans with college degrees rises, paying for degrees tops financial challenges | The Rundown | PBS NewsHour

In addition, degree attainment for young adults was up over 3 percentage points since 2008, to 40.9 percent.
Study: 2 In 5 Americans Earning Degrees After High School : The Two-Way : NPR

And actually, bachelor's degree attainment recently topped 30 percent, for the first time in US history.
https://www.census.gov/newsroom/rele...n/cb12-33.html

And once again, let me ask you this - why do you consider the trades as somehow inferior?

My husband has an associate's degree and his income is more than most people who have bachelor's degrees or masters, or even some doctorates. Yes, in a blue collar trade. And it's not just because of his age or even his experience, because he works with people twenty years younger than him who are making the same amount of money he is.
 
Old 01-10-2015, 06:23 PM
 
Location: Sunrise
10,865 posts, read 16,922,685 times
Reputation: 9084
I don't consider the trades inferior. I gave up on the professional world and went into the trades because I find it more fulfilling. Even then, my diploma opened doors. "You graduated from where? And you want to work here? OK. We'll give you a shot." (That was my last job interview in a nutshell.)

My ONLY problem with the college landscape as it stands is that a student who is more-or-less like I was* has absolutely no chance whatsoever of attending the sort of school which I attended without going six figures in debt. We are failing our students in 2015, but society had my back when I attended school. Students should have the same opportunity that I had. Whether they seize that opportunity is up to them.

* Decent grades, decent test scores, decent ambition, not a whole lot of money.

Education is so much more than a means to a paycheck. That point is lost on many of the participants in this thread. It's glaringly obvious.
 
Old 01-10-2015, 06:23 PM
 
Location: Upstate NY 🇺🇸
36,754 posts, read 14,711,812 times
Reputation: 35576
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
Interesting. Actually the percentage of people with a college degree in the US has risen in the past few years.

Percentage of Americans with college degrees rises, paying for degrees tops financial challenges | The Rundown | PBS NewsHour

In addition, degree attainment for young adults was up over 3 percentage points since 2008, to 40.9 percent.
Study: 2 In 5 Americans Earning Degrees After High School : The Two-Way : NPR

And actually, bachelor's degree attainment recently topped 30 percent, for the first time in US history.
https://www.census.gov/newsroom/rele...n/cb12-33.html

And once again, let me ask you this - why do you consider the trades as somehow inferior?

My husband has an associate's degree and his income is more than most people who have bachelor's degrees or masters, or even some doctorates. Yes, in a blue collar trade. And it's not just because of his age or even his experience, because he works with people twenty years younger than him who are making the same amount of money he is.

Trades are not inferior. Herding everyone into college is causing tremendous problems in this country.
 
Old 01-10-2015, 06:28 PM
 
Location: So Ca
26,577 posts, read 26,445,339 times
Reputation: 24520
Quote:
Originally Posted by rzzzz View Post
I play golf and pretty much no business is done on the golf course. Nobody plays golf anymore, especially corporate CEOs. These days it's mostly retired doctors, asian american accountants and "Hank Hill" type white guys....
Probably depends on where you play. Every sales rep I know has closed countless deals on the golf course. Many attorneys, recruiters, CEOs and CFOs play for business regularly. Golf can be a huge social aspect of work.
 
Old 01-10-2015, 06:35 PM
 
1,774 posts, read 2,296,859 times
Reputation: 2710
Quote:
Originally Posted by CA4Now View Post
Probably depends on where you play. Every sales rep I know has closed countless deals on the golf course. Many attorneys, recruiters, CEOs and CFOs play for business regularly. Golf can be a huge social aspect of work.
Where, though? And in what industry? I play in Arizona .

Almost nobody in the industries I work in, software and financial trading plays golf. If they do sports at all they do marathons, triathlons, road cycling, etc.

Honestly I don't really see how anyone in a competitive business these days can play golf, there just isn't the time for it.
 
Old 01-10-2015, 07:19 PM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
15,293 posts, read 17,565,356 times
Reputation: 25225
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScoopLV View Post
So what you're basically saying is that the high school student who works hard for the 4.0 GPA and makes it into one of the prestige universities should instead attend community college because, "Tough luck not being rich."

My degree has quite literally carried me through my entire adult working life. My life would be much, much poorer (financially, socially, romantically) without it. What I did years ago, I would be incapable of doing today. Working while attending school and graduating debt free simply is not possible anymore at my alma mater.

What we have done is drawn the ladder of opportunity up the proverbial tower so that it is out of reach for most.
That's nonsense. Where you got an undergraduate degree has nothing to do with your life success. Being rich does. In that case, not being born rich is indeed "tough luck." You share that with over 90% of your peers, so get used to it.

One of my friends from Oregon State ended up the EIC on the first commercial superconducting power line ever installed in the world. Getting a bachelor's from a state school did not limit his career track. I have a nephew who graduated from Georgia Tech who now is a senior engineer with a large firm. He has a staff of 50 engineers working under him. If you think you have to be Ivy League to succeed, you aren't smart enough to succeed.
 
Old 01-10-2015, 07:33 PM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
15,293 posts, read 17,565,356 times
Reputation: 25225
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
Sure, costs have risen. But public colleges are well within the financial means of most people.

What's NOT possible for most people to pay for without racking up significant debt is five (or more) years of college at an expensive college, while they're working 15 hours or less a week - if at all.

Here's a hint - if you're having to go into significant debt to get your college degree, you need to either work more (as in a paying job) or scale back on your hours or choose a different school. If you're not willing to do any of those things, then quit grousing about student loan debt.

I know plenty of young people (in and outside of my immediate family) who somehow manage to get a college education without taking out massive loans. Please don't act like it can't be done or like it's an unrealistic option.
Just so. A job doesn't have to be that all-consuming. When I was in college, I engineered the night shift at an AM/FM radio station. It was completely automated, so all I had to do was take meter readings every half hour and study. It really cut into my social life, but it was a paycheck and my homework got done.

I know a young woman who recently graduated who did something very similar. She worked for an alarm company. When an alarm came in she called the home and asked if it was real. If it was real she dispatched security. She normally had hours in between alarms to study. It was a paycheck and her homework got done.
 
Old 01-10-2015, 07:36 PM
 
Location: Myrtle Creek, Oregon
15,293 posts, read 17,565,356 times
Reputation: 25225
Quote:
Originally Posted by rzzzz View Post
I just think the reason millennials are unhappy is because generations above them had cheap college and fine careers. Now those same generations are telling them, yeah good for us, however, you need to get a job to pay your way through community college for a pipefitting certificate.

It's very different than even my generation where my parents didn't want any of us to work part time jobs because it would negatively affect our chances to get good grades and get into better schools, have better scholarships, etc.
My older brother was in the Silent Generation. He went to school on the GI Bill, which paid him a whopping $50/month for every month he spent on active duty. Supporting his wife and child was his problem.
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