Millennials the new poor in the USA, while seniors are the new rich - Is there any hope for those 18-34? (contributing, price)

[usayit]

Perhaps this has already been said in this long thread but I hear that careers related to geriatric services are a good place for millennials (who aspire to do so). As the OP said, they are retiring and getting old with a sizable net worth..... the same wealth that eventually will fund services at the later end of their life spans.

My wife is an occupational therapist and we see a fairly significant difference in opportunities serving pediatrics versus geriatrics. After all, kids don't have any wealth and rely on mostly government funding.... nor do they have vote in government policy to fund services that best serves them. My wife chooses to work in pediatrics... its a labor of love. She feels her work leaves a longer term difference both for the individual and society serving those that have their entire life ahead of them rather than those with just a short time left. Financially, it can be stressful... pretty much the pay of a teacher (similar salary caps) without all the protections of a union nor benefits of a government employee.


We seem to place a higher value on the elderly (big voter block, net-wealth, lots of services both private and publicly funded) than the young (no voting presence, failing education, lack of services).... go figure.

[Blondy]

Originally Posted by ScoopLV

I'm not the one suggesting that Millennials can bootstrap their way out of their problems. I'm not the one whining that my youth was hobbled by unfair recessions.

Boomers on this thread want it both ways. They want people to pity them for the mid-1970s recession or the 1980 recession. Boo-freakin'-hoo. But they think that Millennials should tough it out and pull themselves up by their bootstraps.

And they refuse to acknowledge that they had it great, comparatively. Just about anyone could work a part-time, seasonal, student job and pay their way through college. And the further back we go, the more likely they could pay their way through the Ivy League with their minimum wage job. Again, boo-freakin'-hoo.

Bootstrappers should look in the mirror. I'm very glad I'm not graduating from high school this year.

Whether or not people can afford Ivy League schools is a non-problem imo. Those schools admit around 25,000 people a year.

Anyone who can get accepted should be smart enough to figure out how to finance their education.

I simply am unconcerned about the cost of admission to Ivy League Schools. Against the total population of millenials its simply not an important issue. Not to mention if they want you they will help you finance it.

[Blondy]

Originally Posted by ringwise

So what's the alternative to pulling yourself up by your bootstraps? Giving up, and stealing from the older generations? Uh, don't think so.

Millennials DO have it great. They've enjoyed a standard of living that has never been seen in history, and want for very little. But that lifestyle has taught them that they're "special" and don't have to work hard, because they've never had to. They certainly are entitled.

True and its not a big leap from being told "School is your job, no need to work" to thinking someone else should pay you to go to school wherever your special heart desires.

[Hemlock140]

Originally Posted by usayit

Perhaps this has already been said in this long thread but I hear that careers related to geriatric services are a good place for millennials (who aspire to do so). As the OP said, they are retiring and getting old with a sizable net worth..... the same wealth that eventually will fund services at the later end of their life spans.

My wife is an occupational therapist and we see a fairly significant difference in opportunities serving pediatrics versus geriatrics. After all, kids don't have any wealth and rely on mostly government funding.... nor do they have vote in government policy to fund services that best serves them. My wife chooses to work in pediatrics... its a labor of love. She feels her work leaves a longer term difference both for the individual and society serving those that have their entire life ahead of them rather than those with just a short time left. Financially, it can be stressful... pretty much the pay of a teacher (similar salary caps) without all the protections of a union nor benefits of a government employee.


We seem to place a higher value on the elderly (big voter block, net-wealth, lots of services both private and publicly funded) than the young (no voting presence, failing education, lack of services).... go figure.

For geriatric services such as occupational therapist there is a big need, and good pay. That need will only increase in the next 20+ years as more boomers reach their 70s and 80s. Unfortunately the greatest need will be assisted living workers, but they are just at or slightly above minimum wage.

[KaraG]

Originally Posted by njbiodude

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So not only do us Millennials have to deal with wildly inflated school costs, we now have seemingly more and more hoops to jump through to get a job. And we get arrogant older Americans in management in the hiring chair that simply don't understand what its like to be young as they (likely) didn't have to deal with todays mega-inflated tuition rates or globalized wage suppression due to H1-B visas and outsourcing. All we ask is understanding. If all your applicants seem to be in debt and living with their parents, maybe it's not because they're worthless slime with $500 phone bills, $200 a week drug habits, and monthly vacations abroad but due to other circumstances .

But don't think that all your peers are in huge college debt and living with parents. All 9 millenials in our immediate family are working, some have bought homes already, some have kids. We never heard any excuses or complaints from them like I hear on these boards. None of them expected a dream job starting off, they took the best jobs they could get and many have moved up or took better jobs as they've gained more experience and made new contacts.

Try not to have such a negative attitude towards us "arrogant older Americans." It probably shows during interviews. When I'm hiring, I want the person with drive, positive attitude and a great work ethic, not someone who thinks I'm the jerk who doesn't understand college costs. We're the parents of millenials and we are watching our kids, their spouses and all their friends working without excuses.

[StAcKhOuSe]

Originally Posted by KaraG

Try not to have such a negative attitude towards us "arrogant older Americans."

kinda hard to do when most boomers in the thread are calling all millennials lazy and entitled between their naps and bridge games. it's nice to see that my social security money is being put to good use.

[ScoopLV]

Originally Posted by ringwise

I believe I've already debunked this fantasy. You would have to work part time during the school year, AND 60 hours a week during the summer break to make $5K towards your tuition. And it still probably wouldn't be enough, since tuition was around $5K a year without room and board then.

Wrong. Average tuition in 1980 was $3,500, WITH room and board. And since you strike me as the sort of person who doesn't want to see the average tuition/room/board, here are the historical figures for the University of New Hampshire, 1971 to present:

https://unh.edu/institutional-resear...0FY71-15_0.pdf

Minimum wage earning students in 1980 could pay their $2,835 education nut by working 20-hour weeks at $3.10 per hour.

The same school in 2015 is $26,882 per year. Working a $7.25 minimum wage job, the plucky UNH Wildcat would need to work 80-hour work weeks.

So who is living in a fantasy world? Not me. I remember what it was like working student jobs and paying my way through college. It cannot be done today, except by living at home, commuting, and attending the very inexpensive state schools. The student who doesn't have one of those nearby is S.O.L.

If I were to graduate high school in 2015, I would take advantage of Germany's free tuition. At least they have their priorities straight.

[Everdeen]

Originally Posted by njbiodude

150k in debt isn't sane or common for people acquiring a BA from a state school, but plenty of people with advanced degrees do have these kind of loans for sure.

Okay I want you to follow a hypothetical example with me here for a second. What if someone with a law degree, PharmD, or physician assistant, elite MBA etc. couldn't find employment in their field and for whatever reason were geographically limited for the time being (maybe their spouse has a killer job, their parents have cancer etc). Lets just say you have a company that typically hires mostly BAs/BSs for entry level positions and pays them hypothetically 35-50k a year. Would you outright deny the person due to "poor decisions" you know nothing about assuming they can do the job just because they have high student loans? Perhaps HR would? Maybe the person would be fine working the job offered and going on income based repayment for 20 years, and it's hardly your position to judge.

The problem is Human Resource clowns (if anyone here works in technical fields you will know how worthless and unknowledgeable most these imbeciles are about your jobs or recruiting properly), probably would. I know someone who worked in finance at a fortune 500 company. She said they would hire people and regularly find the people were later denied jobs due to "credit issues" often for previous bankruptcies, high student loans, credit card debt etc. Of course many of these people likely had reasons for financial issues, especially in a high cost of living state like California where an unexpected long-term job loss can wreck even people with considerable savings and good jobs. And then some people end up with million dollar medical bills and the like and declare bankruptcy (fun fact 75% of people who declare medical-related bankruptcy had health insurance to start).

So not only do us Millennials have to deal with wildly inflated school costs, we now have seemingly more and more hoops to jump through to get a job. And we get arrogant older Americans in management in the hiring chair that simply don't understand what its like to be young as they (likely) didn't have to deal with todays mega-inflated tuition rates or globalized wage suppression due to H1-B visas and outsourcing. All we ask is understanding. If all your applicants seem to be in debt and living with their parents, maybe it's not because they're worthless slime with $500 phone bills, $200 a week drug habits, and monthly vacations abroad but due to other circumstances.

Of course the boomers want us to divert around a quarter of the federal budget to social security/medicare and complain about how we're so worthless and entitled. .

I'm surrounded by people by people with advanced degrees. I've never met one with $150,000 in student loan debt. I'm not saying that they are not out there, I just never met one.

PA's would not be out of a job for long. And will likely be making six figures withing a few years after leaving school. This would be an example of when it might be prudent to take on a large deal of debt for school. I had this conversation with my PA, as luck would have it.

Lets just say you have a company that typically hires mostly BAs/BSs for entry level positions and pays them hypothetically 35-50k a year. Would you outright deny the person due to "poor decisions" you know nothing about assuming they can do the job just because they have high student loans?

^ I would know that they have poor decision making skills and, quite possibly, impulse control issues.

I know someone who worked in finance at a fortune 500 company. She said they would hire people and regularly find the people were later denied jobs due to "credit issues" often for previous bankruptcies, high student loans, credit card debt etc. Of course many of these people likely had reasons for financial issues, especially in a high cost of living state like California where an unexpected long-term job loss can wreck even people with considerable savings and good jobs. And then some people end up with million dollar medical bills and the like and declare bankruptcy (fun fact 75% of people who declare medical-related bankruptcy had health insurance to start).

Bankruptcy, although a related, tangential issue, is not the discussion. It's the very small but largely reported on, minority of students who take on copious amounts of debt.

So not only do us Millennials have to deal with wildly inflated school costs, we now have seemingly more and more hoops to jump through to get a job.

I agree with this.

And we get arrogant older Americans in management in the hiring chair that simply don't understand what its like to be young as they (likely) didn't have to deal with todays mega-inflated tuition rates or globalized wage suppression due to H1-B visas and outsourcing.

Actually, older management does understand what it is to be young and struggling, despite how some try to play it down. Our struggles were different, but struggles none the less.

All we ask is understanding.

That's all we ask too. Dismissing our generation as the generation without troubles, especially after living a lifetime and acquiring wisdom that comes from living 50+ years, struggling with our own struggles and then have Millennials dismiss our Red Seas, is pretty tough to swallow.

No matter how long it is circulated on Facebook, Old Economy Steve is not an accurate reflection of 1980. And it galls us to no end to see how young people latch on to this as the gospel truth.

If all your applicants seem to be in debt and living with their parents, maybe it's not because they're worthless slime with $500 phone bills, $200 a week drug habits, and monthly vacations abroad but due to other circumstances.

The hyperbole is yours, not mine

Of course the boomers want us to divert around a quarter of the federal budget to social security/medicare and complain about how we're so worthless and entitled.

Boomers and their employers paid into Social Security their entire working lives. They were promised, in return, for some of it back. Social Security and Medicare are deducted out of your paycheck. Why wouldn't they be entitled to it? (Fun fact: During the 70's, scientists were warning us about global cooling)

I want to end this post with something that no one seems to be acknowledging: I agree that it is difficult right now. I agree that college is more expensive. I've mentioned this in this thread more than once. We have a different paradigm and a small, but quite vocal, group does not want to adjust. It does not take the average college student six figures to graduate.

Link

[North Beach Person]

Following on Everdeen and college cost, I (we) put three kids through college, as well as each getting our Master's, and don't have 6 figures of education debt between the five of us. None of the kids, despite being in the top 5% of their graduating classes with high SATs and high school GPAs over 4.0 (AP classes were weighted) were eligible for any scholarship aid from public colleges (that is a whole other discussion) and what they were offered from private schools still didn't cover costs. The most was for my oldest daughter which covered roughly 50% at a school which didn't offer her major.

For context, graduation dates from college were 2005, 2009, 2012 for the kids and early 2000s for our MAs.

[ScoopLV]

What is your suggestion for the student who doesn't have parents who are able (or willing) to spend that kind of money putting their children through college?

Because currently, those are the kids who are preyed upon by for-profit diploma mills.