Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The point was just that the top rate was 91%, regardless of whether you are talking about marginal or effective rate, even if no one actually earned enough to pay it. Certainly there were real people with effective tax rates over 75%.
Estimated rate was in the mid 40s? You are assuming an income that's wasn't super-extremely-sky high. This sort of effective rate figure is totally meaningless in the absence of an income specification, and it is simply incorrect at higher income levels.
Explain your scenario then. I already showed what an extreme case it would need to be and you failed to answer
In what ways do you see us being less socialist than 40 years ago?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncole1
1. Top tax rates lower
2. Less of higher education is paid for by public money than before, causing out-of-pocket costs to skyrocket. It used to be the case that grant funding accounted for more than loan funding, now it is the other way around.
3. Increasing neighborhood inequality, causing quality public schools even at the K-12 level to be effectively unaffordable due to high property taxes
4. The Citizens United v. FEC decision which makes it easier for wealth and power to become more and more concentrated in a self-perpetuating feedback loop
5. A loss of public investment in science, education and infrastructure.
You seem to have a, well, innovative definition of socialism.
You'd get 75% effective rates by the time income was 3X the cutoff for the 91% bracket, IIRC.
Not, that is not how Reality works.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncole1
Not innovative, just broad and loose. As in, pro-wealth-redistribution.
So, you admit to being part of the problem.
Not only are you part of the problem, you don't even understanding the difference between Income & Wealth, and why "wealth redistribution" is a fail.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff
It is no mystery why low income taxes, globalization, "free" trade, ...
That's because you think it's a conspiracy of international bankers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncole1
Estimated rate was in the mid 40s?
Yeah, that would be part of the Reality you don't get, and the fact that you are grotesquely uninformed about the subject matter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncole1
The point was just that the top rate was 91%, regardless of whether you are talking about marginal or effective rate, even if no one actually earned enough to pay it. Certainly there were real people with effective tax rates over 75%.
No, that is not the point.
You are comparing apples to nuclear warheads.
Look, which part of "Internal Revenue Code" do you not understand?
I'll make it even easier for you: Which part of "Internal Revenue Codeof 1954" do you not understand?
Okay, then which part of "Internal Revenue Codeof 1986" do you not understand?
Do you realize, that when the highest bracket was 91%, every single tax was deductible as either an income deduction, a tax deduction, or both?
Excluding all manner of federal and State excise taxes, plus State and local taxes of any and all kinds, do you have any idea of the width and breadth of the deduction from income and or taxes that were available to tax-payers?
No, you don't.
Freaking dry-cleaning was deductible. Any costs to your home were deductible. Get your carpets cleaned? Deduct the cost.
The manner and type of business expenses sometimes bordered on the ridiculous.
You cannot compare tax codes and tax brackets in the past; you can only contrast them because they are so dissimilar as to bar comparison.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ7
Damn straight, the last straw for me was when North Dakota had the opportunity to vote for no property taxes, and the majority voted to keep them.
Generally speaking, there is nothing inherently wrong with property taxes.
Somehow, I just can't picture you coming home from work, changing clothes, then going out to work on the streets or dig ditches for sewers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncole1
1. Top tax rates lower
And tax revenues are higher, which is good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncole1
2. Less of higher education is paid for by public money than before, causing out-of-pocket costs to skyrocket. It used to be the case that grant funding accounted for more than loan funding, now it is the other way around.
Fail.
Higher education is a State function, not a federal government function.
Admission requirements have been reduced, causing greater demand for education, resulting in higher costs.
Government interference in education vis-a-vis Guaranteed Student Loans has created Interest Inflation resulting in higher costs.
States have failed to properly over-see universities, resulting in higher costs.
Education costs in Euro-Staets are less, because, Euro-States have higher admission standards, which keeps demand low, and Euro-States have stringent curriculum standards that further reduces the number of students who can even take a qualifying test to enter university.
For example, in Germany, your child has to score in the upper 5th Percentile to avoid going to the Hauptschule or the Schulart mit mehreren Bildungsgängen or Berufsschule.
If your child ends up in one of those schools, your child isn't even allowed to take the an admissions test for college.
You'll have to send your child to the US to get a degree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncole1
3. Increasing neighborhood inequality, causing quality public schools even at the K-12 level to be effectively unaffordable due to high property taxes
That is the fault of poor government and Liberal policies.
The Cream o' the Crop moves out, leaving the scum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncole1
4. The Citizens United v. FEC decision which makes it easier for wealth and power to become more and more concentrated in a self-perpetuating feedback loop.
That is 100% your fault, for refusing to participate in your democracy.
Nature abhors a vacuum, and if you refuse to participate [in democracy], then someone or something will step in to fill the void you have created through your own apathy.
You live in an unincorporated township, an incorporated township, a village, a town or a city, do you not?
Have you read the charter or constitution or articles of incorporation governing your municipality?
Because, if you haven't, you know, read them, then you have failed as a citizen and you have forfeited your right to complain.
Have you taken a petition around to get others to sign to amend your charter, constitution or articles of incorporation to limit campaign contributions to eligible voters only?
Then you're part of the problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncole1
5. A loss of public investment in science, education and infrastructure.
That's a parental issue.
Bottom line: You need to start doing all of the things you refuse to do.
Politically...
Not only are you part of the problem, you don't even understanding the difference between Income & Wealth, and why "wealth redistribution" is a fail.
That's because you think it's a conspiracy of international bankers.
Yeah, that would be part of the Reality you don't get, and the fact that you are grotesquely uninformed about the subject matter.
No, that is not the point.
You are comparing apples to nuclear warheads.
Look, which part of "Internal Revenue Code" do you not understand?
I'll make it even easier for you: Which part of "Internal Revenue Codeof 1954" do you not understand?
Okay, then which part of "Internal Revenue Codeof 1986" do you not understand?
Do you realize, that when the highest bracket was 91%, every single tax was deductible as either an income deduction, a tax deduction, or both?
Excluding all manner of federal and State excise taxes, plus State and local taxes of any and all kinds, do you have any idea of the width and breadth of the deduction from income and or taxes that were available to tax-payers?
No, you don't.
Freaking dry-cleaning was deductible. Any costs to your home were deductible. Get your carpets cleaned? Deduct the cost.
The manner and type of business expenses sometimes bordered on the ridiculous.
You cannot compare tax codes and tax brackets in the past; you can only contrast them because they are so dissimilar as to bar comparison.
Generally speaking, there is nothing inherently wrong with property taxes.
Somehow, I just can't picture you coming home from work, changing clothes, then going out to work on the streets or dig ditches for sewers.
And tax revenues are higher, which is good.
Fail.
Higher education is a State function, not a federal government function.
Admission requirements have been reduced, causing greater demand for education, resulting in higher costs.
Government interference in education vis-a-vis Guaranteed Student Loans has created Interest Inflation resulting in higher costs.
States have failed to properly over-see universities, resulting in higher costs.
Education costs in Euro-Staets are less, because, Euro-States have higher admission standards, which keeps demand low, and Euro-States have stringent curriculum standards that further reduces the number of students who can even take a qualifying test to enter university.
For example, in Germany, your child has to score in the upper 5th Percentile to avoid going to the Hauptschule or the Schulart mit mehreren Bildungsgängen or Berufsschule.
If your child ends up in one of those schools, your child isn't even allowed to take the an admissions test for college.
You'll have to send your child to the US to get a degree.
That is the fault of poor government and Liberal policies.
The Cream o' the Crop moves out, leaving the scum.
That is 100% your fault, for refusing to participate in your democracy.
Nature abhors a vacuum, and if you refuse to participate [in democracy], then someone or something will step in to fill the void you have created through your own apathy.
You live in an unincorporated township, an incorporated township, a village, a town or a city, do you not?
Have you read the charter or constitution or articles of incorporation governing your municipality?
Because, if you haven't, you know, read them, then you have failed as a citizen and you have forfeited your right to complain.
Have you taken a petition around to get others to sign to amend your charter, constitution or articles of incorporation to limit campaign contributions to eligible voters only?
Then you're part of the problem.
That's a parental issue.
Bottom line: You need to start doing all of the things you refuse to do.
Politically...
Mircea
Most of those points are either irrelevant, false, misconstrued, or attacks on character.
Time and time again I keep reading articles by Billionaires telling us to live modestly and donate to charity. They tell the middle class don't live beyond their means and that keeping up with the Jones is what will get you in trouble. Then I read all the cool toys like mansions, yachts, fast cars, and stuff these rich keep buying while telling us not to emulate them. I really hope the pitch forks show up at their country club and mansions. The rich has the world under their control far far too long and all this rhetoric they keep talking is just to tell the poor and the middle class not to compete with them or get jealous of their lifestyles.
Wealth disparity worries the wealthy because they know if the masses get angry, they have the power to bring havoc to the wealthy.
They do everything possible to keep the ignorant masses pacified and distracted while they exploit them and live lives of opulence.
The last thing in the world they want is for the masses to focus on them and realize they are the problem. If they did that, they might unite to improve their own situation, and that would be bad for the rich.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
