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Old 02-20-2015, 10:29 AM
 
7,846 posts, read 5,429,891 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troyfan View Post
Look around you. Then look around North Korea. Tell me again whether it's capitalism or communism that failed.
What does communism have to do with capitalism failing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cnynrat View Post
C) Many socialist countries have greater levels of inequality (e.g. Russia). Others may have lower levels of inequality, but none of them have produced the sustained record of overall economic success that the United States has produced.

Dave
United States' economic success is because of its military and imperialism, not capitalism.
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Old 02-20-2015, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Birmingham, Alabama
2,056 posts, read 2,041,923 times
Reputation: 3534
So many places for this discussion to go, but many have hinted at it: equality. Giving much of that wealth and income to everyone in the population has reduced the take for the middle class of the 50's and 60's.

Of course the wealthy don't notice, they stay that way.

Of course the poor don't notice, they stay that way.

But the people in the middle, who benefited from those earliest success in capitalism, now must share much of that with everyone else, as it should be.

So what I'm saying is much of America's hey day of the 50's and early 60's, as short lived as it was, was a mirage. It was perpetrated by inequality and imbalance.

Then affirmative action laws were passed. And the people they intended to help still live in difficulty in many places. Social reform has helped some, but it hasn't "spread" the wealth they way it was ideally pictured.

And pols still run for office on HOPE AND CHANGE, and the people still buy it.
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Old 02-20-2015, 11:18 AM
 
Location: Sunrise
10,868 posts, read 14,577,410 times
Reputation: 9019
Quote:
Originally Posted by ashpelham View Post
So what I'm saying is much of America's hey day of the 50's and early 60's, as short lived as it was, was a mirage. It was perpetrated by inequality and imbalance.
It's easy enough to reboot the middle class. Middle classes are not normal. They have to be created. Here's a fairly short video tutorial about how to create a middle class:

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Old 02-20-2015, 11:26 AM
 
Location: North Idaho
2,224 posts, read 2,205,192 times
Reputation: 2691
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated View Post
United States' economic success is because of its military and imperialism, not capitalism.
Yeah, right.

Are we talking about same United States that twice spent it's blood and treasure to save the world from truly imperial tyrants, and in return spent more of it's treasure rebuilding countries whose economies had been ravaged by those wars?
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Old 02-20-2015, 03:36 PM
 
7,846 posts, read 5,429,891 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cnynrat View Post
Yeah, right.

Are we talking about same United States that twice spent it's blood and treasure to save the world from truly imperial tyrants, and in return spent more of it's treasure rebuilding countries whose economies had been ravaged by those wars?
Are you moving the goalpost?

The United States is an empire. Our wealth is backed by our military presence in the Middle East. It's all about the petrodollar.

We aren't a "capitalist" country, for starters. Don't act like capitalism made this country wealthy.
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Old 02-20-2015, 03:39 PM
 
27,009 posts, read 29,478,442 times
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Capitalism hasn't failed. The problem we have is it hasn't even been tried. Socialists think the Crony Capitalism, also known as Cartel-ism, that we have today is the real thing. It isn't. Not even close.

So we go back and forth between two different elite factions that consolidate power in fewer and fewer hands, all while we fight each other about which "system" is better.

Newsflash: what we have is two different heads on the same two headed monster.

http://www.aei.org/publication/the-c...rfare-we-need/

A virtuous war would be one that rewards society’s honest earners and productive contributors, while punishing society’s predators, pirates, and parasites—all without regard to anyone’s income level. It is a target-rich environment that includes anyone (of any income level) who is cheating to win, any business or union (of any size) with its snout in the public trough, any politician filling that trough and feeding those snouts for reciprocal gain, and any group using the political system (at any level) to maintain its monopoly, or its winning “edge” against less-well-connected competitors.
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Old 02-20-2015, 04:36 PM
 
14 posts, read 12,756 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated View Post
What does communism have to do with capitalism failing?
United States' economic success is because of its military and imperialism, not capitalism.
And the United States' powerful military is the result of capitalism generating wealth to enable to creation of a powerful military. The main way the US military contributes to economic success is by keeping nations stable and keeping the trade routes safe & open - all of which goes to the goal of allowing capitalism to flourish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated View Post
Are you moving the goalpost?
The United States is an empire. Our wealth is backed by our military presence in the Middle East. It's all about the petrodollar.
We aren't a "capitalist" country, for starters. Don't act like capitalism made this country wealthy.
Check your facts. The middle east policy is literally bleeding money. Corporations like Halliburton maybe made a few billion in profit, but the US lost trillions in the Middle East - so the US Middle East policy is still a huge net loss for America. Other countries such as China got many of the mining rights without spending a dime.

As for the so called "petrodollar" - oil prices are the lowest they've been in decades, yet the currency is perfectly stable. Plenty of American oil producers are going out of business (especially Shale) due to the cheap oil prices. The vast majority of the US economy has nothing to do with petroleum.

We are mostly a capitalist country with some social welfare policies. Don't act like capitalism didn't make this country wealthy.

Also, capitalism is economic policy, while imperialism is foreign policy. The two are completely different categories. An imperialist country can be communist, socialist, capitalist, etc. If the US was truly imperialist like a century ago, we'd be enjoying the benefits of free Iraqi oil and minerals right now - instead of other countries like China.

And imperialist is not the same as an empire. The US is not an empire because it doesn't meet the definition. The US government is Federalist, so the central government doesn't have anywhere close to the power required to meet the definitio of an empire.
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Old 02-21-2015, 12:51 PM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,436 posts, read 5,287,598 times
Reputation: 4497
Quote:
Originally Posted by Intranetusa View Post
Also, capitalism is economic policy, while imperialism is foreign policy.
Yes, the USSR was quite imperialist as well.
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Old 02-21-2015, 01:22 PM
 
2,690 posts, read 4,963,105 times
Reputation: 3537
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Raise the capital gains tax to 24% .
The current capital gains rate is already 23.8%.(20% +3.8 Obamacare surtax)

The capital gains rate should be 0%. The freest economies in the world do not tax capital gains.

Top 5: Expat-friendly countries with no capital gains taxes | Nomad Capitalist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
(CA Gov. Jerry Brown recently balanced CA's budget and came out with a surplus just by raising the state cap gains tax).
The state income taxes on all earnings were raised,not just capital gains.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
raise income taxes on higher earners to a cap of 65% (it used to be 90%).
It used to be 0% before 1913. 0% is the best rate and the only fair rate.
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Old 02-21-2015, 04:00 PM
 
Location: Proxima Centauri
5,379 posts, read 2,202,609 times
Reputation: 5743
Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkalam View Post
CAPATALISM has failed -- 21 Charts On US Inequality That Everyone Should See CAPATALISM has failed -- 21 Charts On US Inequality That Everyone Should See


this-viral-video-is-right-we-need-to-worry-about-wealth-inequality

CAPATALISM has proven itself bad for people, society and nation itself and reality is before us...how will we fix it?
I watched the video. It is disturbing.
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