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Old 03-05-2015, 11:13 AM
 
Location: Living on the Coast in Oxnard CA
16,242 posts, read 27,538,118 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbiePoster View Post
Perfect point to demonstrate that the crucial question is: capitalism works for whom? For whom should it work? Only the rich? Or the whole of society? Has capitalism really failed, or has it only failed the middle and lower classes? Do we want a system that fails the majority of people? Is that justifiable?

Also important to examine is--why has it failed? Before the tax system was undermined by big tax cuts, nd before deregulation of many industries, it worked fine. So, therefore, it's not capitalism that failed. Capitalism, when equitably taxed and regulated, works great.
The charts show plenty of Capitalist that are doing just fine. I have yet to see how capitalism has failed any of the capitalist. The issue shouldn't be has capitalism failed, the question should be how do I become a capitalist.
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Old 03-05-2015, 11:32 AM
 
13,090 posts, read 10,449,179 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOON2BNSURPRISE View Post
So no one will invest in your research funding? How many people did you approach to see if any investors could be found?
My advisor has been looking around nonstop for over 2 years. I had funding before summer '13. Then the grant did not get renewed due to federal budget cuts.

Our country right now has fallen into the trap of refusing to invest in fundamental science. A few decades ago, it was not like this, there was Bell Labs for example, also the Space Race. Nowadays companies and government alike are far too short-sighted to fund it. We will be behind many other countries in less than 10 years if this attitude does not change.
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Old 03-05-2015, 11:33 AM
 
Location: Living on the Coast in Oxnard CA
16,242 posts, read 27,538,118 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbiePoster View Post
Wrong. Only 25% of the electorate voted. He won a majority of that 25%.
Voting numbers:

1980 52.56% of voters voted and Reagan recieved 50.75% of the vote. (A majority of the 52.56% that voted)

1984 53.11% of the nation voted with Reagan recieving 58.77% of the vote

In comparison

1992 55.23% vote turnout with Clinton recieving 43.01% of the vote (Split 3 ways with a third party)

1996 49.08% of voters showed up and Clinton recieved 49.23% of that vote.

2008 57.48% voter turnout and Obama had 52.93% of the vote

2012 had a 57.50% voter turnout and Obama won by 51.06% of the vote
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Old 03-05-2015, 11:35 AM
 
13,090 posts, read 10,449,179 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOON2BNSURPRISE View Post
The charts show plenty of Capitalist that are doing just fine. I have yet to see how capitalism has failed any of the capitalist. The issue shouldn't be has capitalism failed, the question should be how do I become a capitalist.
Ok, so all supporters of capitalism are in the upper 10% or 1%? What does this show? That 90% to 99% of the population are hurting.

Not all of them can "just work harder" - there are not enough high-skilled jobs for all of that.
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Old 03-05-2015, 12:06 PM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,436 posts, read 5,293,651 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOON2BNSURPRISE View Post
The issue shouldn't be has capitalism failed, the question should be how do I become a capitalist.
It's easy right? The rich are getting richer and everyone else is getting poorer... so join the rich!

The boat is sinking. So your goal is to fight for one of the few spots on the lifeboat... screw everyone else!

Meanwhile all us stupid bastards are busy trying to patch the hole and bale out the water we've taken on. We don't want the boat to sink. We want everyone to make it.
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Old 03-05-2015, 12:09 PM
 
13,090 posts, read 10,449,179 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOON2BNSURPRISE View Post
The charts show plenty of Capitalist that are doing just fine. I have yet to see how capitalism has failed any of the capitalist. The issue shouldn't be has capitalism failed, the question should be how do I become a capitalist.
Also, what of public service workers such as police, teachers, and firefighters? Do we want them to get and smaller and smaller piece of the pie, just because they aren't doing something more lucrative? Don't we as a society need these workers?

Do you seriously not realize just how inane the idea is?

Taken to its conclusion, in a system like you favor, the only people who can get ahead are those that abandon their morality and do everything they can to rip everyone else off. Is this a society you want?

And when the richest 0.01% finally buy the government out, and no one else can even get safe drinking water because the utility companies have all bought the local officials out and squashed all regulation, is this utopia?

And exactly how is this equal opportunity, when kids get lead poisoning and long-term impairment in cognitive function? Oh, right, all the brain-damaged folks just aren't working hard enough. rrrrrrrrrrright. *clears throat*

This kind of thing, we know from history and the developing world, is exactly what happens when the richest get too much control.
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Old 03-05-2015, 01:35 PM
 
Location: Living on the Coast in Oxnard CA
16,242 posts, read 27,538,118 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff View Post
It's easy right? The rich are getting richer and everyone else is getting poorer... so join the rich!

The boat is sinking. So your goal is to fight for one of the few spots on the lifeboat... screw everyone else!

Meanwhile all us stupid bastards are busy trying to patch the hole and bale out the water we've taken on. We don't want the boat to sink. We want everyone to make it.
Everyone can make it. Plenty of room at the top. It is easier for anyone in this nation to become a Millionaire during our lifetime than in any other lifetime and many more will hit the mark. Not saying that is a good thing because you will need maybe 3 to 5 million just to make it thru retirement. Still the possibilities are there for anyone to achieve millionaire status.
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Old 03-05-2015, 01:54 PM
 
13,090 posts, read 10,449,179 times
Reputation: 10173
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOON2BNSURPRISE View Post
Everyone can make it. Plenty of room at the top. It is easier for anyone in this nation to become a Millionaire during our lifetime than in any other lifetime and many more will hit the mark. Not saying that is a good thing because you will need maybe 3 to 5 million just to make it thru retirement. Still the possibilities are there for anyone to achieve millionaire status.
No. There is not enough net wealth in the world for everyone to have $1 million. Try again.
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Old 03-05-2015, 02:06 PM
 
2,076 posts, read 1,520,292 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delahanty View Post
There are many countries in the world that do not have a capitalist economic system.

Goodbye.

On the contrary... you can't name one country that does not engage in capitalist economics. Start with North Korea if you'd like.
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Old 03-05-2015, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Living on the Coast in Oxnard CA
16,242 posts, read 27,538,118 times
Reputation: 21552
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncole1 View Post
Also, what of public service workers such as police, teachers, and firefighters? Do we want them to get and smaller and smaller piece of the pie, just because they aren't doing something more lucrative? Don't we as a society need these workers?

Do you seriously not realize just how inane the idea is?

Taken to its conclusion, in a system like you favor, the only people who can get ahead are those that abandon their morality and do everything they can to rip everyone else off. Is this a society you want?

And when the richest 0.01% finally buy the government out, and no one else can even get safe drinking water because the utility companies have all bought the local officials out and squashed all regulation, is this utopia?

And exactly how is this equal opportunity, when kids get lead poisoning and long-term impairment in cognitive function? Oh, right, all the brain-damaged folks just aren't working hard enough. rrrrrrrrrrright. *clears throat*

This kind of thing, we know from history and the developing world, is exactly what happens when the richest get too much control.
Not sure how it is in your state but Police, Firefighters and Teachers will amass a retirement account worth on average over $1million. Lets say that you become a firefighter at age 21. You work 30 years and then you retire. You are 51 years of age. You will get at least 80% of your pay for the rest of your life. Some even get more than that. I know of one guy getting 105% of his pay in retirement. In California public service pays big. Lets say that the Police Officer retires with an income of $65,000 a year when they are 51. They live another 21 years getting the $65,000 pay, not including cost of living increases. They also get health insurance benefits to go along with that. Oh and many of them take on a second career after they retire. Lets figure that they just got the $65,000 a year for the next 21 years, that comes out to $1,365,000. Not a bad deal if you ask me. Many people are living much longer than that. If you figure the interest on that kind of investment they have the equivalent of at least a million in the bank.

Lets talk about the Rich. With your comments you seem to be thinking is that the rich got that way because they ripped someone off, or they poluted the environement. That is far from the case. The majority of the wealthy got that way because they built something of value or in my case saved and invested in others that have built something of value. The game is not rigged. Anyone can build a net worth over time. I don't want you to think that I am rich. We are working on building our net worth. Our financial planner has shown us that if we continue in the path we are going we have 80% chance of hitting our goal of building a net worth of $5million or more. Reduce the amount and the percentage goes way up. we will have no problem building a net worth of at least $2 million.

The richest .01% are an interesting bunch. Many of them plan on giving their wealth away. That is how things have been happening for a couple hundred years now in this nation of ours. we have a Museum in our city that at one time was a Library. It was built in 1908 and the money was donated from the Carnegie family. I doubt that they have ever been in Oxnard but the Carnegie fortune built libraries all over the nation. Today Bill and Melinda Gates are funding their foundation where they plan to give more of their money to that foundation so they can give it away. Many other billionaires have decided to do the same thing.

Another thought, the richest people do have fortunes that are so massive that they don't even know what else to invest in. These people are willing to invest in the right idea though. Not sure if you ever watched Shark Tank or not but their are many more people willing to invest in an idea than just the half dozen on that show. Their is more opportunity for people now than in the history of the world and you can make the money quicker. I know one guy that built wealth creating an app. I don't think that he poluted the environment when he created that app. He did create a nice 7 figure net worth though. Another friend sold knit caps, what we used to call beanies. He put his last name on them and now here it is 14 years later and his company is valued at over $400million. I am pretty sure he didn't polute any rivers, although he may have torn up a few snow board runs. Another friend, well more a friend of my parents, but i know him as well. He started growing Poinsettas and selling them to supermarkets. That business is valued at over $60million. I have no idea if growing plants polutes the environment or not. I could go on and on. When he started his business he did not have the money to start it. He had gone thru a bankrupsi and had lost everything. All he had was an idea. He was able to sell that idea to other people and got the money needed to build his company. The investors that he had all made money. Him and his family made money. Everyone was happy.
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