Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-22-2015, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Sunrise
10,864 posts, read 16,986,499 times
Reputation: 9084

Advertisements

Communism fell not because of the Cold War. Not because of military might. It fell in the end because nobody wanted to wear Bulgarian shoes*.

The reason most countries have moved away from Marxism is because it doesn't work. Mao was wrong -- political power isn't derived from the barrel of a gun. It truly does come from a mandate by the masses. And pointing guns at people only works for so long. Government either evolves to become a reflection of the views of the people (like China). Or eventually out come the pitchforks.



* P.J. O'Rourke wrote this in one of his books, so credit given where it's due.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-22-2015, 10:13 AM
 
4,345 posts, read 2,791,073 times
Reputation: 5821
Because of what it's done and what it failed to do.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-22-2015, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
3,158 posts, read 6,120,696 times
Reputation: 5619
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fargobound View Post
It's only 100 million deaths and counting to prove that it don't work.
I was reading intelligent discourse and then it came to a screeching halt with this post.

This is just as bad as a "just because" answer.

Since I am a teacher, I will ask you to clarify your remarks so things can get back on track.

A. Where did you get the figure 100 million deaths? Please cite your source.

B. Are those deaths directly attributable to communism, or are these deaths attributable to the authoritarian regimes that practiced communism?

C. Secondly, as a means of comparison, how many deaths can be attributed to capitalism during the same time period? These deaths would include: deaths due to starvation through lack of wages and social programs in non-communist countries, deaths due to lack of medical care due to insufficient wages and government health programs, and deaths due to wars fighting against communism or for capitalist gains.

D. The use of the word "don't" in the phrase "it don't work" is incorrect grammar. The correct grammar would be "it doesn't work."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-22-2015, 11:48 AM
 
4,236 posts, read 8,136,274 times
Reputation: 10208
^^^

Wow a teacher!

A little bedtime reading for you. Sorry, I can't find anything with pictures and big print.

Mass killings under Communist regimes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-22-2015, 11:49 AM
 
12,836 posts, read 9,029,433 times
Reputation: 34878
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidv View Post
I was reading intelligent discourse and then it came to a screeching halt with this post.

This is just as bad as a "just because" answer.

Since I am a teacher, I will ask you to clarify your remarks so things can get back on track.

A. Where did you get the figure 100 million deaths? Please cite your source.

B. Are those deaths directly attributable to communism, or are these deaths attributable to the authoritarian regimes that practiced communism?

C. Secondly, as a means of comparison, how many deaths can be attributed to capitalism during the same time period? These deaths would include: deaths due to starvation through lack of wages and social programs in non-communist countries, deaths due to lack of medical care due to insufficient wages and government health programs, and deaths due to wars fighting against communism or for capitalist gains.

D. The use of the word "don't" in the phrase "it don't work" is incorrect grammar. The correct grammar would be "it doesn't work."
Since you are a teacher, if your student came to you with those questions, send them off to find their own answers would you not? Sorry, but just couldn't resist the temptation since I've had so many teachers over the years turn my questions for them into a research project for me.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-22-2015, 11:50 AM
 
1,967 posts, read 1,305,971 times
Reputation: 586
Marxian economics, (i.e. socialist economics) policies are policies with populist goals.
I’m a proponent of many populist policies but I’m generally opposed to socialist policies.

Socialist policies lesser effectiveness or failures are due to their contradiction of what are generally human motivations. It is easier to change the situations than to change people’s behavior within the existing situations.

Refer to the thread
//www.city-data.com/forum/econo...-policies.html

Respectfully, Supposn
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-22-2015, 12:02 PM
 
Location: NNJ
15,071 posts, read 10,089,802 times
Reputation: 17247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fargobound View Post
^^^

Wow a teacher!

A little bedtime reading for you. Sorry, I can't find anything with pictures and big print.

Mass killings under Communist regimes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
How many during US slavery?
How many under the crony capitalism of the Philippine and the like?

or are we going to start going into "this is a greater evil than that".

Judging either system by the atrocities committed by implementations of economic systems is a fallacy because one would need to somehow separate the impacts of the economic system from other factors.

Any system, infiltrated with corruption and left unchecked can deteriorate into such a state. That isn't necessarily the topic at hand. I believe there lies a balanced form in which lessons are taken from all systems that have existed in history.

Socialism has also has had a turbulent history yet many countries today that rank high with human well-being are at their root socialist leaning.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-22-2015, 12:11 PM
 
Location: The Carolinas
2,511 posts, read 2,815,964 times
Reputation: 7982
Communism and socialism are both excellent ideas. Now hear me out: they just haven't put the right person in charge yet (namely, me).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-22-2015, 12:22 PM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,667 posts, read 6,590,852 times
Reputation: 4817
Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post
Marxian economics doesn't perform well in the real world compared to Capitalism. Belief in Marxian economics is sorta like belief in Astrology.
Capitalism alone doesn't work either. Every wealthy country in the world is capitalist *and* socialist for good reason, and nearly all of them are considerably more socialist than the US.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-22-2015, 12:30 PM
 
4,236 posts, read 8,136,274 times
Reputation: 10208
Quote:
Originally Posted by usayit View Post
How many during US slavery?
How many under the crony capitalism of the Philippine and the like?

or are we going to start going into "this is a greater evil than that".

Judging either system by the atrocities committed by implementations of economic systems is a fallacy because one would need to somehow separate the impacts of the economic system from other factors.

Any system, infiltrated with corruption and left unchecked can deteriorate into such a state. That isn't necessarily the topic at hand. I believe there lies a balanced form in which lessons are taken from all systems that have existed in history.

Socialism has also has had a turbulent history yet many countries today that rank high with human well-being are at their root socialist leaning.
How long ago did slavery end?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:22 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top