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Old 04-08-2015, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,667 posts, read 6,593,451 times
Reputation: 4817

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petunia 100 View Post
They typically do field work, and you don't really see legal residents stepping on each other to line up for that.
Please don't perpetuate that nonsense.

You know who'd love to do that field work? All the guys who were unemployed when we sent low-skilled production overseas. But not for $5/hr. For $20/hr they will be lining up, I garantee it.
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Old 04-08-2015, 11:06 AM
 
2,485 posts, read 2,218,248 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
Because **somebody** would take umbrage at some book or other that disturbs their
biased world view being on it and assert a states right argument that the "gubmint"
doesn't have the authority or right to tell THEM what their child should be reading.

From that point...the effort would just devolve into Court cases and arguments.

Independent groups can and do make such lists. One LINK here.
I agree that many people have religious views that are incompatible with science. But plenty of people have been through our education system, including college, and that experience doesn't always change a persons views. Has it been all that successful? Nope. It hasn't.

On some non-science reatd topics like race and gender, push hard has led to the opposite effects. There are lots of "secretly angry white men" who dont feel comfortable speaking up in this environment.

Realistically speaking I don't think you will be able to change people much.
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Old 04-08-2015, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,667 posts, read 6,593,451 times
Reputation: 4817
One thing that helps Europeans quite a lot is their general disdain for religion, and embracing more universal humanistic values. Religious indoctrination tends divides people into factions which are then manipulated into fighting each other.

This is not a small thing when it is so important that we feel some camaraderie in order to make positive change.
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Old 04-08-2015, 11:24 AM
 
2,485 posts, read 2,218,248 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff View Post
Please don't perpetuate that nonsense.

You know who'd love to do that field work? All the guys who were unemployed when we sent low-skilled production overseas. But not for $5/hr. For $20/hr they will be lining up, I garantee it.
It has always been that way. Historically immigrants such as Italian and Irish immigrants did the work other people didn't want to do. They were hated and discriminated against. It was grit and hardwork that brought them to mainstream when odds are stacked against them. Waves of subsequent immigrants from around the world have also advanced through the same way. They gained skills others want and worked hard and smart.

The whining about how businesses hire undocumented immigrants today is just a new round of xenophobia with the same type of moods and words that people yelled toward Irish and Italian immigrants. The story of America is a story of enormous grit of immigrants to help their family succeed. That will not change. We are permanently diverse, always will be.
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Old 04-08-2015, 11:36 AM
 
Location: California side of the Sierras
11,162 posts, read 7,635,022 times
Reputation: 12523
Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff View Post
Please don't perpetuate that nonsense.

You know who'd love to do that field work? All the guys who were unemployed when we sent low-skilled production overseas. But not for $5/hr. For $20/hr they will be lining up, I garantee it.
Minimum wage here is $9 per hour at the moment. Beginning July 1, 2015 it rises to $10 per hour.

Plenty of skilled work pays less than $20 per hour. Why would unskilled pay more than skilled?

Field work is unskilled, but it is hard, unpleasant work.
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Old 04-08-2015, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,667 posts, read 6,593,451 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Costaexpress View Post
It has always been that way.
When have we ever shipped low-skilled work overseas? This has nothing to do with diversity but rather setting policies that benefit the people who live here. If you throw that out the window, then democracy is dead and we just get whatever our "masters" want us to have. Also those immigrants from years gone by were legal, no? And our country by any measure was severely underpopulated.

Last edited by rruff; 04-08-2015 at 11:46 AM..
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Old 04-08-2015, 11:38 AM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,667 posts, read 6,593,451 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petunia 100 View Post
Why would unskilled pay more than skilled? Field work is unskilled, but it is hard, unpleasant work.
And seasonal.
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Old 04-08-2015, 11:41 AM
 
Location: California side of the Sierras
11,162 posts, read 7,635,022 times
Reputation: 12523
Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff View Post
And seasonal.
Yes, and seasonal. Some employees work year-round, but the bulk work only during harvest.
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Old 04-08-2015, 08:27 PM
 
2,485 posts, read 2,218,248 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petunia 100 View Post
Minimum wage here is $9 per hour at the moment. Beginning July 1, 2015 it rises to $10 per hour.

Plenty of skilled work pays less than $20 per hour. Why would unskilled pay more than skilled?

Field work is unskilled, but it is hard, unpleasant work.
What they want is wage compression. Make the middle class pay for the poor. Then talk about how they want to help the middle class.
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Old 04-08-2015, 08:50 PM
 
Location: New York Area
35,051 posts, read 16,995,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
Having fewer or no children is not the total solution - In eastern Europe for example, some of those countries are experiencing population decline with higher death rates than birth rates. That does not solve their economic woes.
In our country, though, there are people that go to extremes, such as eight children with eight different fathers. How can any single mother supervise that many and convince them to do homework?
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