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I spied a group of Mexicans doing lawn work down the street. I do speak Spanish! I asked them if they would be willing to work to help us move. they said when they were finished with their lawn jobs. Then, they left. I thought they were just brushing us off. Then, about 9 pm that night, a group---about 10---came up. Just when we were ready to give up and go to a hotel! those guys worked with us until about 3 am! They worked until the job was done, and even refused my offer of $300, instead took $150, said they "understood the situation" and were glad to help!
Yep, they took away the job from the Americans!
So each of these ten men worked SIX hours for $15???
do not want to do themselves or can not do themselves
I am an immigrant but was asked to come here because what needed to be done could apparently not be done by *natives* ...
I am glad they asked, because I like it here and am still here !
Remember the European brain drain in the late 60's and early 70's ???
Except the policies changed since. The Euro brain drain was a good thing for the US.
So each of these ten men worked SIX hours for $15???
And you felt comfortable paying that???
Illegals are a source of cheap, exploitable labor. I make it a point to hire American citizens or legal immigrants. In fact, before hiring a company, I will ask if they pick up day laborers. Should they tell me "yes", then I don't hire them. I'll gladly pay more to companies who refuse to hire illegals.
Take the pot off the stove before it boils over, reverend.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD
Explain, please, what is wrong with expecting those who want to come here to do so in accordance with our immigration laws?
The laws turn our over-the-top anti-drug and anti-terror regimes into fire hoses aimed at plain old garden-variety economic refugees. The laws are an absolute disgrace, but nativists rail against any effort to enlighten them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD
You are also unaware that not only do illegals work off the books, thus not paying any taxes but many engage in ID theft or use a fake SSN.
LOL! Employers withhold income and payroll taxes for all those stolen and faked SSNs and send the money off to Washington.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD
So many native-born Puerto Ricans have been victims of ID theft by illegal aliens that the Puerto Rican government had to take the unprecedented step of declaring all PR-issued birth certificates null and void. Now if native-born PRs need a copy of their birth certificate, they have to jump through many hoops to get a secured, certified copy.
Gee, I have to do the very same thing, and I was born in freaking New Jersey. Wake up and realize that these are post-9/11 hassles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD
Right now, there are 8 million no-match SSNs in the work force.
Those suspense file entries are associated with payroll taxes remitted for which no actual worker can be identified. Some of these of course are simply clerical errors that will be resolved over time. Nearly all the rest are cases of taxes having been paid by an employer on behalf of someone using phony documentation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOS2IAD
Did you know that it's legal for someone to use your SSN as long as they don't use your name with it? If someone is doing that, the SSA won't tell you. Instead, the IRS comes after you for not filing a return for a job you never worked.
What a ridiculous joke! I file a return every year. The IRS knows me and my SSN. They do NOT come after me if someone else mistakenly or intentionally uses the same SSN. They are not that dumb. They know what's going on here. That other case will just sit in suspense. And the taxes withheld will just sit in the Treasury.
We recently moved, just cross town. I had lined up a moving crew of two brothers, white guys. They showed up on time, but just did one load, my dh made the mistake of paying them in advance, cash, they took off and left us with a ton more of stuff to move
I found a company that came out, for 3x the amount, and worked 2 hours, then split. FWIW, these were Black guys---ok African Americans, except some seemed to be speaking Spanish??---
There we were, we had given notice, had to be out that weekend----
I spied a group of Mexicans doing lawn work down the street. I do speak Spanish! I asked them if they would be willing to work to help us move. they said when they were finished with their lawn jobs. Then, they left. I thought they were just brushing us off. Then, about 9 pm that night, a group---about 10---came up. Just when we were ready to give up and go to a hotel! those guys worked with us until about 3 am! They worked until the job was done, and even refused my offer of $300, instead took $150, said they "understood the situation" and were glad to help!
Yep, they took away the job from the Americans!
Are you sure these Mexicans were legal? If not, you may have committed a crime. Also, your rate of payment for labor may be considered unreasonable by labor laws. Consult with your attorney. It's not too late to resolve this, but you must make the effort to do so.
Take the pot off the stove before it boils over, reverend.
The laws turn our over-the-top anti-drug and anti-terror regimes into fire hoses aimed at plain old garden-variety economic refugees. The laws are an absolute disgrace, but nativists rail against any effort to enlighten them.
LOL! Employers withhold income and payroll taxes for all those stolen and faked SSNs and send the money off to Washington.
Gee, I have to do the very same thing, and I was born in freaking New Jersey. Wake up and realize that these are post-9/11 hassles.
Those suspense file entries are associated with payroll taxes remitted for which no actual worker can be identified. Some of these of course are simply clerical errors that will be resolved over time. Nearly all the rest are cases of taxes having been paid by an employer on behalf of someone using phony documentation.
What a ridiculous joke! I file a return every year. The IRS knows me and my SSN. They do NOT come after me if someone else mistakenly or intentionally uses the same SSN. They are not that dumb. They know what's going on here. That other case will just sit in suspense. And the taxes withheld will just sit in the Treasury.
------------------------
The first paragraph about "the laws" is a garbled rant that makes no sense. Why are our immigration laws a "disgrace"? You are aware that every country in the world has immigration laws, don't you? In fact, the US is a very generous country when it comes to immigration. We allow 1 million legal immigrants in on an annual basis.
Now, you also are ignorant of what the consequences of ID theft are for victims. They are put in a world of hurt but you don't seem to understand that.
The IRS will indeed come after you if someone is using your SSN but not your name. In fact, right now several people could be using your number and you won't know about it until the IRS comes after you. Not to mention that you are put into a world of hurt trying to straighten out that mess.
"Post 911 hassles"? Gimme a break! Did the state of NJ declare your birth certificate null and void?
Educate yourself on this issue as you really don't understand. Instead you scream "nativists!" because people expect our immigration laws to be obeyed.
I tell you what you can do---move several illegal aliens into your home. Feed, clothe, shelter and pay for their medical care. Give them your SSN so that they can find work. Just remind them not to use your name with that SSN. See how fast the IRS comes after you for not filing all those tax returns.
Scroll down to "Illegal immigration driving identity theft". There you will read the following:
Getting your identity stolen can throw you into a nightmare.
Americans who have their identity stolen by these gangs are in for major headaches. Among the complaints filed with the FTC is that of a Texas man arrested for a crime committed by an illegal alien who had filched his identity. In another case, highlighted by Nevada senator John Ensign in last year’s immigration-reform debate in Congress, the Internal Revenue Service hit a woman with a $1 million back-tax bill, even though she was a stay-at-home mom. An investigation later found that 218 illegal aliens were using her Social Security number. A Los Angeles police detective—who, ironically, worked in the department’s fraud bureau—was unable to buy a home because of bills piled up by an illegal immigrant who stole his Social Security number to gain employment at a processing plant. Then the IRS served the cop with a bill for $40,000 in back taxes; when he protested, the agency threatened to send his case to collection. Other legal residents have had their unemployment claims or workers’ compensation cases rejected after government records showed that someone with their Social Security number was working.
I'm sorry (though not necessarily surprised) that the post was beyond your comprehension. Have a pleasant evening.
And I'm sorry (though not necessarily surprised) that you are clueless when it comes to this issue.
It's pretty pitiful if that's the only rebuttal you have because what that clearly shows is that my response (complete with a link to back up what I said) has either gone way over your head or you are being willfully ignorant.
And what happens when you import a bunch of low-skill poor people who don't know english. Productivity declines. Why? Because cheap labor *decreases* the incentive to invest in labor saving tech and equipment. The guy above delivering food by bicycle is a good example.
If the imported workers were *higher* in skill and education than the median in the country, then you would expect a beneficial influence on the economy.
The economy is weird. Does anyone actually know how it works? Realistically, cheap labor should set the new bar and prices should fall in accordance. With everything adjusted, "wages" and "wealth" would remain the same in respect. In many ways we see this considering that individual States have their own economies that are adjusted to their own COLs with most things. But that is not how it happens; wages go down while the costs of goods and services goes up within the individual State. That is because Capitalism by nature must continue to grow (until it bursts). In a true market-based economy, everything would continually adjust up or down to reflect trends in market value (including wages). If no one is willing to pay $3 for an avocado, you charge $2. If no ones' wages can afford a $3 avocado, you charge 50¢.
Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire
Do you really believe that America needs to import people in order to deliver food on bicycles? And do you believe that the immigrants coming to this country are all taking the low hanging fruit? Heck no. Go to any very busy metropolitan. They are doing jobs that Americans have always done, when they paid enough to live comfortably.
We are on the cusp of deflation, and a great deal of that has to do with suppressed wages. If you ask me, immigrants have been used as a means of wage price control for at least the past decade. They have been injected into a wide range of professions, taking on roles up and down the ladder.
In many cases, "jobs Americans won't do" just means jobs Americans won't do for low wages.
There are enough hipsters in every major U.S. city who would think it is cool to deliver food by bicycle, so no, I don't think it is necessary for a business to "import" those jobs. However, chances are if it is a Chinese restaurant than the employment could very well have literally been imported... ...by the Chinese.
Many Hispanics, in particular the illegals, are taking the low-hanging fruit. Middle Easterner's do cabbie jobs. Like the Hispanics, this is usually because of "connections" with others of a similar ethnicity. Middle Easterners and Asians open convince stores and beauty salons, often times in the "hood". How many Americans of any color are willing to that? Think about it, if you were to move to Germany would you walk into a German business and expect to get hired to do a German's job? No. You would seek advice from the other ex-pats and go where they recommend you go.
To the busy metro... ...can you spot the Canadian? The Irish? The German? The American? How do you know those brown/ivory/olive/yellow/etc. people are not 1, 2, 3+ generations deep American?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ummagumma
Long time ago, you'd pay $20 to a college student to mow your lawn. Now you pay $25 and it's a whole crew of Mexicans. So what is the college student supposed to do ? He can't compete.
Practically all landscaping companies around here employ exclusively Mexicans. Does it mean that there was no landscaping jobs 30 years ago ? Or that these Mexican immigrants, many of whom came here to live 4-6 per apartment or a rental home so that they could make some money, had driven the wages so low that an American who has to live here simple can't compete ?
Go to the higher paying jobs, and look at the IT. The whole departments now are staffed by H1B visa holders, primary from India. Where they used to employ Americans and pay them $60-70k per year, they now employ Indians and pay them below $40k per year, plus if the manager is also Indian he often receives a cut of their salary under the table for hiring them (which is why an Indian department manager almost always means that the department will be soon staffed only by Indians, and I mean India born and raised people for whom giving 15% of their salary to the manager in exchange for a job is a normal way of doing business).
Now, if you spent years and tens of thousands of dollars getting an IT degree, and you have wife and kids and the house, will you be able to cut your salary in half to compete with them ?
Immigration can be very good or very bad, it all depends on the policy. Bring in highly skilled, well educated young people, who will be competing on the same salary level as the comparable American workers, and are planning on staying in this country so they can't be engaging in a cutthroat wage dumping, and you prosper. That's how Canada does it with their points system and a crackdown on work visas.
Or there's an American way - Walmartization through immigration. Short term gain for a few, Long term loss for all.
To the bold: immigrants are willing to travel across the world, or to risk getting caught sneaking in, or to die of dehydration running across a desert. An American may not have to cut their salary if they are willing to move. And the ones who do just that, are willing to relocate for employment/raise/promotion, are not the ones you see on here moaning about a lack of jobs or the low pay.
Also, H1Bs and others on work-related visas are not immigrants. They are temporary residents.
Everyone I know in IT are all Americans. Then again, I don't claim to know everyone...
If an H1B is willing to work for less that says more about the employer than it does the employee. Those from India coming over to work in "IT" in actuality are working for more money than they would ever get in India. That amount just happens to be less than what the company would pay an American, so who is to blame?
Since the statutes change (amended) with each Presidency, things get confusing; but there are limits on H1Bs and other work-related visas, and, the jobs are supposed to go to Americans first with the H1Bs et al filling in the gaps.
The reality is most Americans do not want foreign workers coming in and taking their jobs, BUT, they have no problem with demanding cheaper prices on the goods and services they buy even if it means using a business that hires foreign workers to keep cost low.
American worker pride only occurs when its their job they are protecting.
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