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Old 05-22-2015, 09:14 PM
 
816 posts, read 964,200 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stagemomma View Post
Why are all the guys standing on the curb beside Lowe's every morning Latinos? If Americans want those jobs, why aren't they standing out there?

There is a difference between having your job taken away and giving it up.

Could it be that Americans have access to other avenues for jobs and could be trying to get job in different ways? I am not sure how unemployment works, but can't americans stand at the unemployment office. There is also the issue that those jobs are illegal to begin with. Doing an illegal job is perhaps a greater stigma for an American, than an immigrant.

The day-labor pick-up is for those who have no other avenue for jobs. But you raise a very valid point.
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Old 05-23-2015, 08:30 AM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,795 posts, read 7,271,788 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knowledgeiskey View Post
More people in the economy, the more jobs. It's that simple.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezmzE8LYi8k


In an organic economy, this would be true. However we do not have an organic economy.

We have an ever more automated economy where the increased production of every employee due to technology reduces the need for employees.

This means every person added to the work force exponentially effects the supply demand equation.

The proof of this can be seen in the falling standard of living and the ever decreasing wealth of the people.

Even the supercharging of the economy by pushing future consumption forward by ever increasing debt purchases can no longer maintain the status quot.

Of course, the corporate employers benefit from this scenario, as it lowers employment costs while simultaneously increasing demand for products, which is why you have an ever widening divergence in wealth and income.... The problem is, this greed driven agenda is not sustainable in the long run.
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Old 05-23-2015, 08:40 AM
 
816 posts, read 964,200 times
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It does indeed reduce the need for certain low skill employees. It then becomes paramount that the focus should shift to educating rhe work force to do jobs that are less automatable. China has deployed mass scale automation over the last two decades , the kind it never had, yet at the same time , it has lifted more people out of poverty than the rest of the world combined. The data suggests automation and decimation of wages dont always go hand in hand. But america s lack of focus on primary education is appalling, and could very well lead to the scenario where a bulk of the population is not employable or do jobs that are automated
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Old 05-23-2015, 08:45 AM
 
816 posts, read 964,200 times
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Another way to look at it is the industrial revolution. A widespread exponential rise in productivity which went hand in hand with reducing unemplymnet. The one thing i do agree with though is that this mode of production will accelerate wealth gap. As those with the capital resources will accumulate wealth faster
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Old 05-23-2015, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Southeast Michigan
2,851 posts, read 2,288,205 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aramax666 View Post
Another way to look at it is the industrial revolution. A widespread exponential rise in productivity which went hand in hand with reducing unemplymnet. The one thing i do agree with though is that this mode of production will accelerate wealth gap. As those with the capital resources will accumulate wealth faster
Except that the current scenario is exactly the opposite. Rise in non-human productivity (robotics and computers) on top of globalization which makes it easy for companies to buy labor at lowest possible cost in the markets with low cost of living and use it for projects in the markets with high cost of living, making money on the spread, and resulting in the increasing unemployment. Add to this the Western business philosophy in which planning for the long term future of the society at the possible expense of business is an ultimate sin - if you are a CEO of a company, your moral obligation under the Western business moral code is to maximize the profits to the shareholder, at any legally justifiable cost, and the consequences of your actions on the society are not your problem as long as there's a legal justification. And that's the law abiding ones.

Quoting Karl Marx "if capital can get 100 percent profit, it will trample on all human laws; 300 percent, and there is not a crime at which it will scruple, nor a risk it will not run...If turbulence and strife will bring a profit, it will freely encourage both.".

The man's solution was unworkable, but his analysis of the system was spot on. While the capitalism is the best workable system the humanity knows out of all it tried to date, it must be kept on a leash. Although I think we're way past that point.
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Old 05-23-2015, 08:28 PM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,667 posts, read 6,567,649 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ummagumma View Post
Except that the current scenario is exactly the opposite. Rise in non-human productivity (robotics and computers) on top of globalization which makes it easy for companies to buy labor at lowest possible cost in the markets with low cost of living and use it for projects in the markets with high cost of living, making money on the spread, and resulting in the increasing unemployment.
The *problem* is the way globalization is being conducted. The US is being used as the great dumping ground for foreign production. The US oligarchs as well as the those in other countries love this arrangement because it has made them filthy stinking rich.

It isn't the fault of automation and productivity in the slightest... yet.
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Old 05-23-2015, 10:35 PM
 
Location: Southeast Michigan
2,851 posts, read 2,288,205 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff View Post
The *problem* is the way globalization is being conducted. The US is being used as the great dumping ground for foreign production. The US oligarchs as well as the those in other countries love this arrangement because it has made them filthy stinking rich.

It isn't the fault of automation and productivity in the slightest... yet.
How can the blame be put on tools / concepts ? It's how the people use them that matters.

Automation and productivity will be used the same way - personal profiteering at any cost, and may everyone else go to hell.
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Old 05-23-2015, 10:38 PM
 
22,338 posts, read 11,869,541 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stagemomma View Post
Why are all the guys standing on the curb beside Lowe's every morning Latinos? If Americans want those jobs, why aren't they standing out there?

There is a difference between having your job taken away and giving it up.
When Americans stand with the Latinos, one of two things happen. They are either 1) harassed by the Latinos; or 2) Sleazy employers who pick up the illegals refuse to pick up Americans---and not because Americans are lazy. Rather the sleazy employers know that Americans would not put up with unsafe working conditions and poor pay.
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Old 05-24-2015, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,667 posts, read 6,567,649 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stagemomma View Post
Why are all the guys standing on the curb beside Lowe's every morning Latinos? If Americans want those jobs, why aren't they standing out there?
There is a difference between having your job taken away and giving it up.
Since you brought it up, why don't you try it and see what happens?

I suspect that if you are lucky enough to land something you will find it's really crap pay for hard work. Which is what we need more of in this country. People willing to do anything for a crust of bread under threat of starvation! It's amazing how far we have fallen in one generation...
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Old 05-24-2015, 11:15 AM
 
5,661 posts, read 3,509,219 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
i don't know many american's who deliver Chinese food on a bicycle in the dead of winter.

there are so many jobs that american's do not want to do themselves.
Totally disagree
That is such a blanket false thing for people who are ok with illegal workers here. IMO
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