Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-16-2015, 12:21 PM
 
Location: Delray Beach
1,135 posts, read 1,760,387 times
Reputation: 2527

Advertisements

You don't need a vote to 'leave' the Euro.
You just run out of them and they've sorta left you.
Then you issue IOU's to pay the government workers pensioners, et. al.
Then they wipe themselves with the currency.

Yes, it's all good.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-16-2015, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Delray Beach
1,135 posts, read 1,760,387 times
Reputation: 2527
Seriously, Greece will limp along until

A. The young folks exit the country in droves and the country becomes totally irrelevant, then
B. They enter phase IV of the soap-crisis where they still can't repay the preposterous debt,
...and then Europe responds by either saying 'No More' or forgives the debt.

Whether the pitcher hits the stone, or the stone hits the pitcher, it's gonna be bad for the pitcher.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-16-2015, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Sputnik Planitia
7,826 posts, read 11,725,301 times
Reputation: 9044
Great coverage from BBC Panorama a few days ago:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eR4dzmqdu8w

The old man in the documentary makes a great point... everything in Greece is imported, if the Euro suddenly goes in short supply it would be catastrophic as importers would not be able to be paid and supplies would dwindle. It would be a calamity of monumental proportions sending Greece into the abyss. Any parallel currency introduced in the interim (even if that was possible on such short notice) MAY not be accepted by outsiders. What would happen then? It's a total unknown. One of the reasons Syriza agreed to the current draconian agreement.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-16-2015, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Sputnik Planitia
7,826 posts, read 11,725,301 times
Reputation: 9044
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
That's what this whole thing is about. Greece borrowed other people's money and spent it, then got bailed out and spent that.
Exactly true which is why the current solution is so idiotic. So now they are being given a THIRD bailout? Well, let's predict the consequence of that - they are going to spend THAT as well So IF they were not able to keep commitments with the current plan we are now expecting them to adhere to a much tougher plan? I see absolutely zero logic in that. It's like telling a delinquent, you were not able to live on a budget of $2000/month, well the next solution for you is to live on a budget of $1500/month. It is asinine.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-16-2015, 01:44 PM
 
1,890 posts, read 2,013,470 times
Reputation: 4113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
They already spent other people's money.

That's what this whole thing is about. Greece borrowed other people's money and spent it, then got bailed out and spent that.
Not really. They did spend above their means and they did borrow money to cover it. The bailout however mostly went to private German and French banks and did nothing to help the Greeks situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
No one is entitled to a specific living standard. If the Greeks cannot make their own way in this world, they'll just have to deal with it.
No their not BUT they shouldn't bear 100% of the blame either. Loaning money is a risk that you you don't get paid back. The banks in this case passed the buck onto all the EU taxpayers instead paying the piper back in 2010 like they should have. If you or I borrow too much to ever payback we are to blame, the lender is also to blame, and we should be able to get our debts cleared through bankruptcy.

You can't have it both ways. Banks can't charge people with bad credit more interest under the assumption they might not get paid back then turn around and cry foul when their risky loans at inflated rates fail to perform. They knew what song was playing when they started dancing.

The austerity measures forced on Greece have been by far worse than elsewhere.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-16-2015, 01:45 PM
 
1,890 posts, read 2,013,470 times
Reputation: 4113
Quote:
Originally Posted by k374 View Post
It's a total unknown. One of the reasons Syriza agreed to the current draconian agreement.
What is known is that unless they take control of their own money and default on some debt they will never get out of this mess.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-16-2015, 03:13 PM
 
Location: Sputnik Planitia
7,826 posts, read 11,725,301 times
Reputation: 9044
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanokie View Post
What is known is that unless they take control of their own money and default on some debt they will never get out of this mess.
Agreed. Going down the same failed path is downright ridiculous. As I said earlier, if they failed in the past with less austerity and less debt now we are supposed to believe they are going to succeed with much more austerity and much more debt? That makes no sense at all. Yet, the EU is in denial although German finance minister Schlaube finally admitted that Grexit is the only viable option. However, Merkel doesn't see that yet.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-16-2015, 03:39 PM
 
18,740 posts, read 8,358,569 times
Reputation: 4117
Quote:
Originally Posted by k374 View Post
The old man in the documentary makes a great point... everything in Greece is imported, if the Euro suddenly goes in short supply it would be catastrophic as importers would not be able to be paid and supplies would dwindle. It would be a calamity of monumental proportions sending Greece into the abyss. Any parallel currency introduced in the interim (even if that was possible on such short notice) MAY not be accepted by outsiders. What would happen then? It's a total unknown. One of the reasons Syriza agreed to the current draconian agreement.
This shows several idiotic flaws in the original Euro agreement.

The Euro states cannot all be net exporters and thus net importers of their money. If the states cannot create their money, they have to import it. So some states will tend to lag and/or lose. And then in times of economic stress, the weak ones are then simply toast.

http://www.epicoalition.org/docs/rites_of_passage.htm

IMO contrary to many opinions the strong EU states are not barbaric. So in the end they will be obliged to send Greece all sorts of assistance and aid in the not too distant future. A humanitarian bail is imminent, and the cost to them is bound to be many billion. Anyway.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-16-2015, 07:35 PM
 
7,846 posts, read 6,373,035 times
Reputation: 4025
Quote:
Originally Posted by k374 View Post
Agreed. Going down the same failed path is downright ridiculous. As I said earlier, if they failed in the past with less austerity and less debt now we are supposed to believe they are going to succeed with much more austerity and much more debt? That makes no sense at all. Yet, the EU is in denial although German finance minister Schlaube finally admitted that Grexit is the only viable option. However, Merkel doesn't see that yet.
Merkel is counting on it. German bankers benefit from the destruction of Greece.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-17-2015, 05:50 PM
 
1,820 posts, read 1,643,220 times
Reputation: 1091
What is the prize for conquering Greece?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top