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Yada, yada already dealt with. Otherwise, no one has said that it is stupid to consider money when deciding where to attend school. What I said in perfectly plain English was that trying to monetize everything is taking a good thing much, much, much too far.
Yada, yada already dealt with. Otherwise, no one has said that it is stupid to consider money when deciding where to attend school. What I said in perfectly plain English was that trying to monetize everything is taking a good thing much, much, much too far.
And all I said is maybe people need to consider it more often. I see kids going to schools like Roger Williams, Simpson College, Emory, WUSTL, etc. complaining about how expensive school is and how they have so much in student loan debt. You don't think they should have considered their potential debt load before deciding where to go?
Does it make sense to go to a school like Dartmouth if you live in Indiana and want to become an engineer?
I find your posts rather entertaining. You seem like an elitist when it comes to higher education yet in posts about economics you focus on how there are no good paying jobs left in the US and how unfair life is. Rather ironic coming from someone who thinks going to Ivy schools regardless of debt load is always the best decision.
Also, I appreciate you trying to diminish my accomplishments. What have you down in your life? hopefully, you have a BS and PhD from one of your fine Ivies, have made millions, and started a few companies that pay all employees atleast $20 an hour.
If you have the opportunity tio go to Yale (or the like), you should take it and worry about how to finance it later. People coming out of Yale (or the like) are NOT filing for bankruptcy because of that choice.
Receiving an acceptance letter from Yale, then deciding instead to go do two years at some local CC and then two at the University of Missouri so as to save on education costs would be a STUPID decision. There is no other word for it.
It would depend. If it was Yale or one of the 10-15 other top schools vs. CC then state U, yes, go the Yale route. But there's rapid diminishing returns once you get past the top 15-20 schools. After that, from the studies I've seen, they tend to wash out as more or less the same from the student's perspective of job prospects, etc...
So if your choice is between Baylor at $40K per year or CC then to University of Missouri... well, in that case the 2nd route may be a better choice.
There are ways to screw up at the top schools - particularly, you don't network. If you're just going to go to class, read books and go to your dorm room - any college can do that. Selecting a college is not about the education, it's about building the social networks, the connections, the "someone who knows someone" that will get you a job.
My uncle went to Princeton and majored in economics. He was in some of the eating clubs, fraternities, whatever it was they had there. Alumni connections had a job for him lined up with a Wall Street investment firm before he even graduated. He had a friend who had a cousin who was an alumnus who had an opening in his office and he didn't mind hiring a good Princeton person.... that kind of thing.
....although some of it is up to the person. One of my cousins graduated Summa *** Laude from Johns Hopkins. She ended up getting pregnant not long after that and is now a housewife in Nebraska with 4 kids. As far as I can tell from her facebook feed, she's happy.
Last edited by redguard57; 07-01-2015 at 04:12 PM..
mizzourah2006 got what I was trying to say, about why people don't consider the cost of college vs what they can afford.
and I also get what you guys said about yale and such...
what I don't get is why you guys seem to think that college is a one time event? Why can't someone go to community college/university, then at a later point in life attend yale or another school for their graduate degree/whatever?
Sure, I agree that Yale has better networking chances, but I also think that Yale isn't so exclusive that someone at age 28 couldn't get in if they gave it up at age 18... I mean look at med school, the average age is 26. Assuming only 4 years of undergrad, and that they entered at 18 right out of highschool, they would be finish with undergrad at 22. What did they do for the 2 years? They worked some, got some experience, decided med school was for them and went back to school. Or didn't get in, and waiting to try again in the following year but that current year they also did something.
basically, yes I think college is important, I don't think it is a linear thing though. People can "buy" what they want from it and as they need more, they can go back for more. If at that time, they want "better" too? and can better afford it, then sure go ahead and attend a better school. But why attend a school that cost $100k and later on changing your mind about it because you think it is your one shot at college life? Hell, employers pay for master's and phd degrees... why not let them pay for it?
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Trying to monetize everything is taking a good thing much, much, much too far. A Yugo was always cheaper than a Mercedes, and for a while at least, both were likely to get you from Point-A to Point-B. This does not mean that the Yugo was a wiser buy.
But if at the moment you can only afford a Yugo, then why isn't a wiser buy? You can always upgrade later in life... most people do. I mean ignoring things like repair costs on the Yugo.. maybe a honda vs mercedes would be a better comparision? But still, buy a honda when it is sufficient, then upgrade later.
And all I said is maybe people need to consider it more often.
Again, who said they shouldn't? You rail over and over against claims that were never made.
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Originally Posted by mizzourah2006
I find your posts rather entertaining. You seem like an elitist when it comes to higher education yet in posts about economics you focus on how there are no good paying jobs left in the US and how unfair life is.
Clearly, you have me confused with some number of other and ruffianesque posters. Good schools offer access that lesser schools do not. Simple fact. The opportunity to attend a good school should be considered in terms far broader than the crude monetization that has been endorsed in this and other threads.
Otherwise, there are and likely always will be plenty of good-paying jobs in the US for those who are qualified for them. And it is principally just dingbat Republicans who would make life so unfair. The rest of us would like to see things shared a good deal more equitably.
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Originally Posted by mizzourah2006
Rather ironic coming from someone who thinks going to Ivy schools regardless of debt load is always the best decision.
Yet another thing not stated by anyone. You are becoming a sorry caricature of yourself.
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Originally Posted by mizzourah2006
Also, I appreciate you trying to diminish my accomplishments.
Again, I have done no such thing. In following another path, you might have become the Ambassador to Belgium. Is that some sort of insult???
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizzourah2006
What have you down in your life? hopefully, you have a BS and PhD from one of your fine Ivies, have made millions, and started a few companies that pay all employees atleast $20 an hour.
LOL! Down to calls for a penis-challenge now? How sorrowfully degrading for you!
Most people don't pick a college based on the reputation of the major that they want, they might want the college for it's name, or just because it is a "party" school. They don't look at the reliability of the degree in terms of jobs market. They don't look how many "dollars per year mileage" the degree will provide (IE better paying job or not). They don't even consider the interest rate and if it is too high, they might put it off until they can pay it. Hell they don't even plan to save a "down payment" if it doesn't come from the parents for the most part.
This was me when I was a 17 year old high school senior. My top schools were Penn State, University of Maryland, University of Delaware, Rutgers, and University of Georgia. I only wanted to attend because size mattered (I liked and still do like campuses with 15,000+ undergrads), they were party schools, the name brand, and because I wanted to leave home. My mom wanted me to attend the local community college instead of going away to a university. When I got into Penn State-Altoona instead of University Park, I decided to compromise with my mom: I would attend community college, but it had to have dorms.
Now, at 19, I couldn't have been happier with my choice. I attend a top community college. I am an RA in the residence halls. I have taken honors courses and completed the honors curriculum. I conducted research in my field (biochemistry) at a top private university last semester. I traveled to Paris and Europe for the first time in March, making me the first in my family to travel internationally. I have gained valuable leadership skills. I have conversed with CEOs, executives of a Fortune 500 company, and PA state politicians. The best part about attending is that I have almost NO debt! I have less than $5,000 taken out in student loans due to the scholarships I received and my RA position, which entitles me to a single room free of charge. I am not even looking at the colleges that I looked at when I was 17; now Bloomsburg University, West Chester University, Temple University, West Virginia University, and University of Nebraska are on my list. The first three are especially advantageous because I will receive a grant from Pennsylvania as a PA resident. As I experienced independence in college, I realized that my single mother won't always be there to subsidize my every activity, and that I must learn to control costs independently.
But like any stock investor, they will tell you to do the research first before buying...
I'm not against college, I just wonder why people ignore the economic significance of going through and getting the degree if they have no plans on how to recoup the money later. IE through a better paying job. They can't just "hope" to get a better job with no clue on what the job market is like before deciding on the degree. It's just as foolish for a stock investor to randomly pick stocks too, some will hit on good companies, some on failing ones. Do you really think college students should be risking years of their life before and after college on a degree without doing prior research into it first?
mostly do you think people are asking the college advisers what the job prospects are for said degree? what kind of income does it lead to? then do they ask the companies in that industry the same thing? Then ask what kind of life style does it provide? From my experience, some do ask, but the majority don't. They somehow "decide" on a major with no input from anyone actually in that industry, and decide wholly on if they like the classes or not.
You're assuming that a field with a large number of jobs when you start a program of study will have a large number of jobs when you finish. Demand for a major can change literally overnight, and government job figures are often 4 or more years behind what's really going on in an industry. Ask anyone who graduated into the 2001 tech bust, or anyone who got a nursing degree after 2007.
Not saying one shouldnt pay off their loans, but if after you have your degree you can never find any work how are you going to pay it off? Youre not, so why bother getting the degree in the first place. other than "i value my edumacation cuz it makeums me smart" why bother going to college? and congrats on not having to take out any loans or get financial aid but not all of us are rich.
You can find work. You might have to move to another city or take a job that isn't what you are looking for. Employers tell me they can't find skilled workers who show up, speak English, and can follow simple instructions. Be one of them.
There are much better places to discuss and learn about college choices and costs. For anyone truly interested I suggest looking at the College Confidential forums. My daughters had completely different choices and those choices fit the individuals. My older daughter was not academically inclined but was very smart. She coasted through high school and was not prepared for college. She spent 2 years at community college largely doing remedial work. She then went to the local university and graduated after 2 more years.....straight A's or close to it and Phi Beta Kappa. We attribute the excellent prep work at the community college for turning her around and enabling her to graduate with a degree and a career she wanted. My younger daughter was completely different. She was highly, highly motivated, did well in school, enjoyed in clubs and activities and played a musical instrument. Her college education cost us a fortune. She went to a top 20 school and double majored in music performance and a related engineering field. She always took at least 20 and sometimes 25 semester credits and worked like a demon around the clock. She would not have cared for community college nor would she have been challenged by the local university. My older daughter would not have survived a single semester at a challenging college. I conclude that the academics needs to fit the individual.
When it comes to cost, the issues also seem clear. My older daughter is working in a field with poor pay but good job security. She is happy to go to work, put in 8 hours and return to the family. She will be even happier when she can retire with 25 years. My younger daughter works like she studied. Although she is still paying off college loans, she is well on her way to a 6 figure income. She excels in her field, works long hours, is very ambitious and was featured in a trade publication as one of the top young people in her field.
...government job figures are often 4 or more years behind what's really going on in an industry.
More like four WEEKS behind. That's the time it takes to gather, analyze, and then publish the data.
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Originally Posted by Hatless Wonder
Ask anyone who graduated into the 2001 tech bust, or anyone who got a nursing degree after 2007.
There was no tech bust. There was a crisis-of-confidence recession in 2001 upon the selection of George W Bush as President, but the IT world just kept steaming right along.
Same with nursing. Nurses have for years been in increasingly short supply and high demand in the field is projected over at least the next decade.
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