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Old 07-17-2015, 02:54 PM
 
13,711 posts, read 9,180,558 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts View Post

Meanwhile the Chinese are planning to land people on the Moon within 10 years, and probably they'll take the lead in space while we're sitting here on our fat butts, trying to figure out how to borrow (or tax) more money to fund more pointless and ineffective stimulus programs.
Actually the Chinese will over take us while a bunch of idiot Americans sit on their couches, watch Fox News and worry that their country will turn into Greece.

.
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Old 07-17-2015, 02:56 PM
 
1,820 posts, read 1,643,447 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burkmere View Post
And I see you've joined in!!
Joined in the laughter. It's all so like the Keystone Kops...
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Old 07-17-2015, 03:05 PM
 
1,820 posts, read 1,643,447 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff View Post
The sooner other countries stop buying our debt, the sooner our trade deficit will close and we can get back to real investment... in domestic production and infrastructure.
People buy our debt because they have dollars to invest. You are hoping to improve our trade balance by improving our trade balance. Nifty plan...
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Old 07-17-2015, 03:31 PM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,667 posts, read 6,552,899 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Major Barbara View Post
People buy our debt because they have dollars to invest.
They got the dollars by selling us more than they buy.

And it isn't an investment in the US. It's an investment in their own country's production and infrastructure.
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Old 07-17-2015, 03:40 PM
 
1,820 posts, read 1,643,447 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff View Post
They got the dollars by selling us more than they buy.
Or we bought more from them than they bought from us. Any more revelations from the hamster wheel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff View Post
And it isn't an investment in the US. It's an investment in their own country's production and infrastructure.
Investments in other countries are made in their own currencies. Dollars are invested in US Treasury securities -- the safest, most secure investment vehicle in the history of the world. So safe that they are the yardstick against which the security of all other investments is measured.
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Old 07-17-2015, 04:07 PM
 
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
10,931 posts, read 11,669,651 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burkmere View Post
The only reason the United States isn't in bigger trouble right now is that other countries keep buying our debt. How long before we are where Greece is? Do you think we will avoid it? 10 years? Longer? Socialism doesn't work. Eventually you do run out of other people's money. Greece is the textbook. Germany didn't blink like Greece thought they would. Can just kicked down the road and Greece I think hS hit a point of no return . Hopefully Portugal, Spain etc. will learn from Germany's actions. How about the United States? How far are we away from where Greece is now?
Simple: the US government announces that the country is bankrupt. and nationalizes the largest financial institutions. The currency markets hammer the dollar down. The Treasury prints more dollars to buy back the USD-denominated debt with its depreciated currency and negotiates better terms on its non-$ debt. Congress tightens spending, raises taxes on the wealthy and reforms the financial system. Yes, the domestic sector gets hammered, but exports surge, leading the way to a slow and painful recovery.

You tell your grand-kids how great America is: we didn't have to borrow a penny!

Greece had none of these options, but this is partly how Sweden saved itself in the early-90s.
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Old 07-17-2015, 07:41 PM
 
2,560 posts, read 2,288,744 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beb0p View Post
This just goes to show you have no idea how world economy works.

Let's check the world economic ranking, Greece is #44.. Guess who is #1? Yeah, the very country that you think is on par with #44....

Greece got themselves in debt because they don't make enough money but they still want nice things. That's basically it. Yes they have a lot of debt, yes they should have tightened the belt; but the bottom line is that they have no way to repay the debt. That's the problem. The US, on the other hand, is more than capable of repaying the debt. That's the difference you don't seem to get.

Another thing that you are just simply ignorant on, is that if America goes the way of Greece, it will CRASH the world economy. It will result in damages worse any World War; because such an event will take down Europe and Asia immediately; which in turn will crash the Middle East and Africa and subsequently the rest of the planet. First of all, no one will let it get to that point - not us, not Europe, not Asia, not Planet Earth. And if, in the unlikiest of event that it happens, the rest of the world will be begging us to take their bail money. They will not sleep well until America is fixed.
.
Well, then they should just run out and make more money. Absurd comment.

Nowhere did I say we were on a par with Greece. But we are headed in that direction. So you are saying we have less debt than we used to?
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Old 07-17-2015, 09:11 PM
 
2,560 posts, read 2,288,744 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Major Barbara View Post
Or we bought more from them than they bought from us. Any more revelations from the hamster wheel?


Investments in other countries are made in their own currencies. Dollars are invested in US Treasury securities -- the safest, most secure investment vehicle in the history of the world. So safe that they are the yardstick against which the security of all other investments is measured.
Our 19 trillion dollar debt has a teaser rate of 0% Barbie.
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Old 07-17-2015, 09:12 PM
 
2,560 posts, read 2,288,744 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frihed89 View Post
Simple: the US government announces that the country is bankrupt. and nationalizes the largest financial institutions. The currency markets hammer the dollar down. The Treasury prints more dollars to buy back the USD-denominated debt with its depreciated currency and negotiates better terms on its non-$ debt. Congress tightens spending, raises taxes on the wealthy and reforms the financial system. Yes, the domestic sector gets hammered, but exports surge, leading the way to a slow and painful recovery.

You tell your grand-kids how great America is: we didn't have to borrow a penny!

Greece had none of these options, but this is partly how Sweden saved itself in the early-90s.
Geez, why didn't I think of that?? We should have been pushing that all along!!
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Old 07-17-2015, 09:22 PM
 
Location: Ohio
24,624 posts, read 19,057,201 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff View Post
They got the dollars by selling us more than they buy.
No, they don't, but we appreciate your attempt at humor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by itsjustmeagain View Post
So what happens when investors around the world lose all trust in our currency and stop buying our debt?
That is unlikely to happen.

What is more likely to happen is the investors will run out of money to buy US debt.

Private pensions and State pensions currently hold $493 Billion and $234 Billion respectively.

State pension plans owe in excess of $1 TRILLION, and don't have it. The States will have to cash in their chips just as the private sector will have to cash in theirs to be able to pay off their pensions, but they won't be able to buy/hold US federal debt.

The same is true for Euro-States.

You do realize that many of the Euro-States have part of their future unfunded liabilities tied up in US securities, right?

You do understand that over the next 30 years, the Germans, Dutch, French et al are going to have to dump their US treasury holdings in order to pay for their social welfare programs, right?


Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
The future of the USA is Japan, not Greece.
Yeah, 1 Euro = $122

That's not much different than $1 =382 GRD.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
Well, if they're buying less US debt, they're either buying US goods instead, or selling less goods to the US. In any case, our import/export ratio improves to the side of increased jobs in the US. It may increase inflation, which will reduce the private debt overhangs that have made so many Americans leery of spending, so spending and GDP will increase and more people will be brought back into the workforce.

That's so 1920's and so wrong.

In the first place, what you claim is true if and only if 100% of the materials originate in-country.

The US cannot manufacture squat without first importing tons of other material, which will cost prohibitive due to the low value of the US Dollar.

In the second place, you're wrong because you're not familiar with something called an "Escalation Clause."

If you read your mortgage contract, the bank can increase the interest rate it charges you to offset any increase due to Monetary Inflation.

You'll have to read the mortgage contract to see what rate triggers an increase.

So, for example, if the Federal Reserve reports Monetary Inflation at a rate of 10%, then it may be enough to trigger a letter from your lender explaining to you that the Escalation Clause is now in effect and your mortgage has increased because your interest rate has increased.

I have heard that GMAC has an Escalation Clause to jack up your auto-payments, but I've only heard that, and don't know it for a fact.

Amused...

Mircea
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