Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The science and tech industries are unique in a way most people don't want to talk about. They are hard to do and require a much higher than average IQ to be good at them. To be a good engineer at a high tech company, I'd say you have to be smarter than the average doctor. You need to be good at things like abstract reasoning, creative design, and scientific comprehension which are skills way beyond those of the average person.
If I really had to put a number on it I'd say you need at least a 120 IQ to be in the high tech industry. That's the 90th percentile. To get a PhD in STEM you probably need a 130 IQ, which is the 97th percentile.
So you can't just say, there are unemployed Americans out there - they will retrain into tech jobs. They can't retrain. The job is beyond them. If it was within their abilities, they probably would have excelled at school in the first place and not been unemployed.
The figures above about ratios in graduate STEM departments are totally true, and it's not because of differences in career aspirations that Americans are outnumbered. China and India each have over a billion people, and moreover their populations are younger than ours. Given such a huge population, the top 5% or so is numerically huge, bigger than the top 5% in the USA.
American scientists and engineers are still lucky and very well trained. They have choices that H1Bs don't have.
A lot of bay area companies were started by immigrants and are led by immigrants. As the immigrants rise through the ranks , this will happen more and more. This is great for America and the world . America fosters great innovation from people all over the planet, they get to invite and retain the best of the world. this is a good thing. And yes, STEM is not a trivial field. Its extremely competitive.
The quality of native born STEM students is exceptional too. I am fortunate to have such a challenging peer group, and it made possible by America's welcoming immigration policy.
Paying more just to entice someone who is not interested in the job makes no sense. They simply aren't interested.
I assume the person you are trying to entice is already working in the field. So why would they not be interested?
Some possible reasons:
You are located in a particularly vile and depressed area. In which case *you* should probably move.
The job you are offering provides little or no long term security.
And last but not least, the pay and benefits you are offering are too low. Contrary to your belief.
This is precisely the same kinda of BS excuse for hiring illegal farm workers. "Americans won't do those jobs" means Americans won't do those jobs for $5/hr without legal rights. So we need to hire desperate people from poor countries!
So you can't just say, there are unemployed Americans out there - they will retrain into tech jobs. They can't retrain. The job is beyond them.
I totally agree that there are limitations, but wages and benefits need to be higher before you can say that's the case. There are plenty of smart people going into other fields because tech isn't that lucrative.
It's cheaper because the risk of getting deported forces them to work a lot of extra hours without being paid overtime.
The U.S. doesn't just randomly deport H1B visa holders. They have to commit a serious crime in order to be deported. There's no need for these folks to work extra hours. I've worked at the silicon valley companies. H1Bs are treated just like any other regular employee.
I assume the person you are trying to entice is already working in the field. So why would they not be interested?
Some possible reasons:
You are located in a particularly vile and depressed area. In which case *you* should probably move.
The job you are offering provides little or no long term security.
And last but not least, the pay and benefits you are offering are too low. Contrary to your belief.
This is precisely the same kinda of BS excuse for hiring illegal farm workers. "Americans won't do those jobs" means Americans won't do those jobs for $5/hr without legal rights. So we need to hire desperate people from poor countries!
The problems is that this sounds good on paper, but is far from reality. I suggest you try to get out in the real world and have a look.
A computer scientist in NC making $250,000 is not going to move to SV is they even if they get offered $350,000 if they don't want to move. It's not all about money.
Having the business move is so absurd that I can only imagine that you didn't put any real thought into that idea.
That certainly made me pause to think, but we don't even get applicants. We don't even get to the point of discussing salary, and our salaries are not on Glassdoor.
It's a company owned by a well known company with excellent benefits. These are full time, permanent positions and 'full relocation' is posted in the offer.
Moving a 1200 person company is not a viable option.
That certainly made me pause to think, but we don't even get applicants. We don't even get to the point of discussing salary, and our salaries are not on Glassdoor.
It's a company owned by a well known company with excellent benefits. These are full time, permanent positions and 'full relocation' is posted in the offer.
Well, actually, in that case you could try listing the salaries on Glassdoor. Potential applicants may consider a company suspect if they cannot track down salary data and reviews beforehand.
Well, actually, in that case you could try listing the salaries on Glassdoor. Potential applicants may consider a company suspect if they cannot track down salary data and reviews beforehand.
Interesting suggestion, thank you!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
