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@storm, so how come you dont advocate that the employee just get the skills to not work min wage?
sure the pay sucks... what does increasing company expenses do? they pass it onto consumers, so the min wage guy still wont be able to afford more...
sure it isnt even, so he might get 20% more while food costs 10% more, you think he is going to gain 10% to spend? nah, once his landlord finds out he can spend more, rent goes up as well... and the economy just readjust itself to the new numbers... he is still on min wage no matter the price point. his skills are the only thing that will change that.
no matter what you set the min wage to, as long as they dont obtain more skills, they will always struggle... and wont get anywhere...
even if you try to say min wage in past was higher... i would argue that they were more skilled as well... so they got paid more.
I am all for people doing that but it is not a overall solution. There are some people who just can not do more then low wage jobs and there are not enough higher paying jobs for everyone and if they did that would just drive the wages of these skilled jobs down.
Higher prices would mean more profit, not higher pay for the employees. Businesses are there to make money, not to provide a living for workers. Jobs that require education, experience and skills pay enough to live on, but employers are still only going to pay what they have to in order to attract good workers.
The better and more unique the skills, the harder to find people, therefore higher pay. That's why professional athletes, actors, and the most skilled tech workers make so much, and why those requiring little or no skill get minimum wage.
If you are not a business owner then you rely on the job to survive so yes the business are responsible for providing a living wage. Not sure why you want businesses not to have responsibility. The idea that you have to have education, experience and skills is your opinion there is no reason we should have these ridiculous requirements you made up.
I thought the whole $15/hr nonsense had died out but it seems a lot of politicians and groups are still fighting for it. From a purely logical standpoint the whole $15/hr demand makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
The minimum wage guy gets a raise to $15/hr so then what happens to the guy/gal with a little more skill currently making $15/hr, does he get a commensurate raise to $20/hr? So then the guy with a bit more skill than that who is making $20/hr is going to revolt and demand $25/hr... so what you have here is the whole hierarchy moving upwards.
The increase in salary without a corresponding efficiency/productivity increase in the economy creates nothing but pure inflation so the net effect is absolutely and virtually nothing.
Instead of increasing minimum wage focus on improving productivity, encourage people to get more skills. Improve upward mobility by providing easier access to education. Increasing minimum wage is not the answer to current social problems.
It's absurd that such a large proportion of the general populace and people like Bernie Sanders and other politicians do not understand such basic concepts.
Basically the unskilled guy makes the same amount as the more skilled guy, and if it's a business with a small profit margin they close their doors or let people go.
Raising the Minimum wage to $15 an hour on a national scale would create so much dead weight loss in the labor market that it would completely collapse our economy. Price floors like minimum wage can only be done on a small scale over time in most cases. It's a trade off between loss of jobs and better paying unskilled jobs in regards to minimum wage. From an economics standpoint, minimum wage takes more money out of people's hands. The misconception is that the money is being redistributed from evil CEO's to poor people, but the truth is that the money we're talking about simply disappears, due to inefficiency.
It is false to believe business owners or large corporations will tolerate paying above the equilibrium rate for unskilled labor just because the can. The truth is that if you put a road block in front of people making money, they'll find away to drive around it every time, which in the labor market means less jobs almost always.
I thought the whole $15/hr nonsense had died out but it seems a lot of politicians and groups are still fighting for it. From a purely logical standpoint the whole $15/hr demand makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
The minimum wage guy gets a raise to $15/hr so then what happens to the guy/gal with a little more skill currently making $15/hr, does he get a commensurate raise to $20/hr? So then the guy with a bit more skill than that who is making $20/hr is going to revolt and demand $25/hr... so what you have here is the whole hierarchy moving upwards.
The increase in salary without a corresponding efficiency/productivity increase in the economy creates nothing but pure inflation so the net effect is absolutely and virtually nothing.
Instead of increasing minimum wage focus on improving productivity, encourage people to get more skills. Improve upward mobility by providing easier access to education. Increasing minimum wage is not the answer to current social problems.
It's absurd that such a large proportion of the general populace and people like Bernie Sanders and other politicians do not understand such basic concepts.
K374, the federal minimum wage, (FMW) rate does not affect all wage rates equally. It certainly is of some net benefit to ALL employees earning rates not exceeding USA’s median rate; the portions of such employees exceed the half of all USA employees and they cannot be less than half of all full-time employees.
Net benefits or detriments of to employees earning beyond the median wage rate, are hardly perceivable, but those individuals or families enjoying higher incomes benefit the greatest amounts of income dollars increases due to any USA net economic benefit; increases of the FMW have always improved USA’s net economy (more than otherwise).
The FMW rate is not among the primary causes of USA’s inflation.
The FMW rate is much less causes and is much more a victim of the U.S. dollar’s purchasing power losses.
Generally, almost FMW rate’s increases’ entire contributions to USA’s inflation occur within 30 days of its bill becoming a law and within the 30 days after of each incremental increase’s enactment.
Outside of those durations of days, (i.e. other than A MAXIMUM of 4 months for a single bill’s FIRST of incremental increases and a month after each of the bill’s additional incremental increases), the FMW rate contributes NOTHING to USA’s rate of currency inflation.
Regarding production relative to FMW rate increases to: Proportional Increases of the FMW rate have not been keeping pace with the U.S. dollar’s losses of purchasing powers or to our increased production. The U.S. Congress obviously has no recognition or regard for any relationship between the FMW rate and USA’s production; it has little regard for the FMW rate’s loss of purchasing power.
If you want a country with no or extremely low minimum wage I encourage you to look south of our own border. South of Mexico, though, because Mexico's minimum wage is about $4.00 an hour. South of that, in Guatemala, it's about $2.50 an hour last I checked.
If high minimum wages are so bad, then why are the countries with higher minimum wage than the U.S. doing alright?
That said, if a higher minimum waged forces McDonald's restaurants to move toward automation, I don't see a problem with that. Perhaps they should automate anyway if the technology exists to do so. Having worked in fast food, there is no benefit to those jobs - they did nothing to help my resume. They put a little extra cash in my pocket during school but if I had to clean toilets at night instead for pocket money I don't see the difference.
My thoughts on the minimum wage are that it should be raised because it's the only inflationary pressure we can put on wages collectively. If it results in some automation, so be it, let other countries' poor people or robots flip the burgers.
People cry over the spilt milk of jobs that no longer exist but who cares? So McDonald's automates, maybe the people working those crap jobs should get better skills or be put to work doing something more worthwhile (and we should facilitate that).
People miss factory jobs but they were never good. The good ones were union-controlled, high paid because they were restricted access, like plumbing today. Henry Ford's vaunted $5.00 day minimum wage the 1920s was only the equivalent of about 9.00 an hour today and they were hard jobs to get and keep. The federal minimum wage is not responsible for those jobs being gone and I don't miss them anyway. My grandmother died of emphysema from working in a thread factory and breathing in that junk for years. Screw that, I don't want to die like she did for a crap job. In a similar vein, if a robot can pump grease refuse from a hamburger grill, good for it, I'll figure out how to do another job.
Automation is good. That is not a fear I have about the minimum wage. Why many of you seem to covet the economy of Vietnam is beyond me.
Last edited by redguard57; 12-06-2015 at 05:43 PM..
Generally, almost FMW rate’s increases’ entire contributions to USA’s inflation within 30 days after the bill had became a law and/or 30 days before and after each of the bill’s increases have been enacted.
Outside of durations of those days, (i.e. other than A MAXIMUM of a month for passage and two months for each of the bill’s FMW rate increases), the FMW rate contributes NOTHING to USA’s rate of currency inflation.
Already proven false, at least a dozen times. You have no shame.
So everyone who works for a business does not need to work those jobs? Why do they work those jobs then I would have thought they would have quit if they did not need those jobs to survive.
As I posted on the same topic before when this was brought up. Costco & Hobby Lobby pay upwards to $15.00 an Hr & they do great. So why again can't others pay a decent wage? Oh yeah.. greed. And did I mention these companies have good benefits as well?
So everyone who works for a business does not need to work those jobs?
Correct... "everyone" doesn't. Some of them do, some of them do not. When you make absolute statements that everyone relies on a job or everyone on min wage would be homeless you just look foolish since there are so many examples that prove your claim false.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Eagle
Why do they work those jobs then I would have thought they would have quit if they did not need those jobs to survive.
Because some people need something to do, others contribute to the family budget but would hardly wither and die without the job, others are saving up for new skateboard trucks, etc.
You do realize people have quit minimum wage jobs before right? Are you under the impression they all went under some bridge to slowly starve to death?
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