Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
1) Everyone should pay taxes and be vested and contributing to our economy unless you are mentally or physically disabled to the point you can't. Otherwise, you're a selfish loser.
2) I believe there should be some tax on wealth of the very wealthy. The problem, is wealthy people can move to a more favorable location to avoid it. So really, it's a tax that you have to ask the wealthy to pay and hope they do.
3) I believe it's past time to raise the national minimum wage.
4) welfare should be structured in such a way to prevent able bodied citizens from using that as a career choice.
Our present system of government is controlled mostly by politicians, lawyers, tycoons, lobbyists, etc., who mostly want to keep things the way they are, as corrupt as possible, because they profit from that corruption. Libertarianism is a drastic change away from that corruption, and isn't going to happen unless we get a lot of those people out of the way first.
Fine by me. Lock and load!
Quote:
Originally Posted by eok
One way to get a lot of them out of the way is to simplify things to the point where there is no longer a place for them in our system of government.
Again, you won't get a disagreement from me there. This hits close to the core of libertarianism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eok
A basic income, to replace section 8, food stamps, disability, unemployment, etc., would drastically reduce the amount of bureaucracy needed or justified.
We could (and should) drastically reduce those programs, and their attendant bureaucracies, without delving further into socialism. When you find yourself in a hole, you stop digging. You don't switch shovels.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eok
But what's more likely to happen, the way we're going now, is that automation will make most people unwanted. The 1% will produce goods for each other. Factories will produce goods wanted by the 1%. The economy of the future is likely to be of, by, and for, the 1%.
Yeah right. If that were the case, they wouldn't be wasting their precious time and resources producing goods and rendering services for us, the lowly 99%er peasant serfs.
We could (and should) drastically reduce those programs, and their attendant bureaucracies, without delving further into socialism. When you find yourself in a hole, you stop digging. You don't switch shovels.
You would have to convince the government and the general population. You would be far more likely to convince them to replace all those bureaucracies and welfare programs with a basic income than with no welfare at all. Your plan is basically a non-starter, because of the political obstacles.
What makes a basic income fairer than other forms of welfare is that everyone qualifies for it, and nobody has to prove their income or anything to qualify. But I still think we would be better off providing basic food, clothing, and shelter, than money. Stuff that's cheap enough that a lot of people would voluntarily opt out of receiving it, and buy better stuff for themselves.
But what's more likely to happen, the way we're going now, is that automation will make most people unwanted. The 1% will produce goods for each other. Factories will produce goods wanted by the 1%. The economy of the future is likely to be of, by, and for, the 1%. The 99% are likely to be mostly ignored, and left to die of extreme poverty. Traffic on the roads would be reduced by 99%, which the 1% would consider a big benefit of the new economy. Airports wouldn't be crowded, and nobody would have to wait in line. Shopping malls, etc., would gradually become more and more upscale, while becoming less and less crowded. From the point of view of the 1%, it would be paradise far beyond any they ever dreamed of in the past. At that point would they even want libertarianism? More likely they would want a very stable government whose main goal was to keep things from changing much.
So, basically, what you are saying is that 99% of the population is useless and unnecessary, and should be killed off?
What makes a basic income fairer than other forms of welfare is that everyone qualifies for it, and nobody has to prove their income or anything to qualify.
Which means you get it even though you are a worthless degenerate who never works even when given the option to do so. In a UWC system, the worthless don't get a free ride.
And besides, basic income would never be able to replace the whole welfare state. The disabled and the unemployed would need at least what they would get with a minimum wage. So will everyone just get a whole minimum wage for free? Don't think so.
1) Everyone should pay taxes and be vested and contributing to our economy unless you are mentally or physically disabled to the point you can't. Otherwise, you're a selfish loser.
2) I believe there should be some tax on wealth of the very wealthy. The problem, is wealthy people can move to a more favorable location to avoid it. So really, it's a tax that you have to ask the wealthy to pay and hope they do.
3) I believe it's past time to raise the national minimum wage.
4) welfare should be structured in such a way to prevent able bodied citizens from using that as a career choice.
With #4 if that's the direction you want to go you would need to have mechanisms for all able bodied people who need to work, because there's no more welfare, to be able to have jobs that allow them to afford at least food, clothing, shelter and basic medical care. Not to mention all the bills that go along with basic shelter and the transportation to and from said jobs.
2) I believe there should be some tax on wealth of the very wealthy. The problem, is wealthy people can move to a more favorable location to avoid it. So really, it's a tax that you have to ask the wealthy to pay and hope they do.
i dont think you hope that they do, you have to make it so that they have no choice but to. i absolutely would leave the country to avoid a wealth tax. the government doesnt deserve a chunk of my wealth on top of all the other taxes i pay just so they can spread their money among politicians and political contributors.
With #4 if that's the direction you want to go you would need to have mechanisms for all able bodied people who need to work, because there's no more welfare, to be able to have jobs that allow them to afford at least food, clothing, shelter and basic medical care. Not to mention all the bills that go along with basic shelter and the transportation to and from said jobs.
Good luck with that.
I didn't say no welfare but they should be encouraged by decreasing benefits to get a job. I've known too many people that milk the system. I know someone I grew up with that worked for the welfare department and figured out how to maximize benefits and retired at 28 yoa to live on welfare...he's now approaching 60 and about 500 lbs. He was encouraged to milk the system and become a fat lazy moocher.
Because none of them were able to outperform us in every way. When we've had machines outperform us in some physical way, they couldn't always outperform us in every physical way, and they were sorely lacking in the ability to think. This time its different because we're on the cusp of a revolution where machines can think.
Theres a couple different forms of AI, the lowest level one is along the lines of "expert systems". Thats software that's designed to do a task, and do it well. An example is driving a car or truck. While its amazing, and will cause a lot of our problems-and solutions, its limited. Watch Watson smack human players around on Jeopardy and you get the idea.
But theres another level where it starts being whats called a general AI, and thats where the serious threat is.
A cotten Gin couldn't research cancer cures. A Fuel cell couldn't win at jeopardy. A single computer cannot at this point hold a decent discussion. But Expert systems can do all of this today-AND IS. General AI will go much much further. And thats different then past technologies. Its generic, able to do anything we can do....only better. And 18 months later good ol moores law makes them not only do it better....but do it twice as fast. Change is going to become insanely rapid at that point.
No. The beauty of perfection is, it does not exist. Why? Humans or machines can not anticipate every single variable and the consequence of those variables.
I'm not getting into the complete ignorance of AI at this point and time and the sensor problems self-driving cars have. Mostly born of the basic lack of comprehension of all varibles.
Of course! Don't increase peoples earnings. Just make it illegal to earn too much! (sarcasm)
Iceland also has earned income tax credit.
The problem with tax credits is that they don't increase income, they just allow you to keep more of the income you have already. If somebody is making crap, that won't be much to begin with. For example, after a person on a minimum wage in Iceland has deducted his tax discount away from his income tax he is only paying about 10% of his income to the government assuming he works a full time job, but lots of people are still unhappy here and feel wages are too low. This is the problem with trying to solve the problem of low wages with lower taxes, it doesn't increase actual income much.
The system works differently in the two countries here. In America EITC is "refundable," which means you can owe negative taxes -- aka EITC credit at the end of the year can result in filers getting a bigger check than they sent in taxes for the year.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
