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One caution when citing the awesomely cheap cost of college in most European countries.
It typically only applies to the top 20% or so. Imagine the furor in the US if you had everyones tax dollars subsidize just the top students from the wealthier families while the others got forced through the system to be truck drivers etc based on their test scores?
Most people touting the benefit really only have a superficial understanding of the downside, they just hear "free college" and get all excited.
P.S. My oldest is getting "free college" in the US because of their academics. It would be disingenuous for me to start threads about how you can attend good US schools for $5,000 a year without disclosing it's only for SOME.
Want to buy a car? I will use the VW Golf as an example. Here in the USA the Golf sells for around $20,000. In Denmark plan on paying $41,000. On top of that they have a VAT tax of 25% and you will pay a 63% of the value of the car just to have the right to license it in Denmark. Car taxes and the ability to drive on Denmark roads bring the total tax for a car up to 180% of the sales price.
Lets say that you decide prices are too high so you will import your car into the country. You have a maximum of 90 days to license the car. You will pay the 63% tax on your car based on the selling price in Denmark of a similar car. Take the Golf that you paid $20,000 for, Denmark will tax the car based on the $41,000 selling price in Denmark. You get a bill of $25,830 to register your $20,000 car. Lucky you.
If you want to live there ride a bike. Most people do that now.
But you don't understand. Cars are evil because they are individualistic! Who needs them when you can use that lovely public transport that the progressives made for you
One caution when citing the awesomely cheap cost of college in most European countries.
It typically only applies to the top 20% or so. Imagine the furor in the US if you had everyones tax dollars subsidize just the top students from the wealthier families while the others got forced through the system to be truck drivers etc based on their test scores?
Most people touting the benefit really only have a superficial understanding of the downside, they just hear "free college" and get all excited.
P.S. My oldest is getting "free college" in the US because of their academics. It would be disingenuous for me to start threads about how you can attend good US schools for $5,000 a year without disclosing it's only for SOME.
You mean they impose a rationing system in socialist Europe while everyone gets a "quality education" here. An educated chicken in every pot.
Did I mention this was a plank in the communist manifesto?
One caution with ours. Our education system is producing idiots.
What is the quality of that care? Also, the US is the world's medical laboratory, so many of these OCED nations live off of the R&D expenses Americans shoulder.
Speaking of Denmark only, the good people at Novo Nordisk might have a thing to say about that.
Still, no denyng that the US, and the bigger OECD countries, do a disproportionate amount of research. OTOH, Denmark (and most other counties) would put a stop to people like Martin Shkreli tout suite.
You mean they impose a rationing system in socialist Europe while everyone gets a "quality education" here. An educated chicken in every pot.
Did I mention this was a plank in the communist manifesto?
One caution with ours. Our education system is producing idiots.
If 'our education system' is the USA, then I agree....we spend the most and get the least thanks to blind Liberalism PC. Arizona (which spends the least per pupil) spends 1/3rd as much as New York state (who spends the most) per pupil and Arizona's white students outperform the scholastic average for white students in NY and black students in Arizona substantially outperform black students in NY state.
What say the rationed services socialists to the fact that the USA has the highest average survival rate (using the 5 year standard) at 73% and the great Denmark is near the bottom in survival rates of OECD countries at just over a 50% survival rate?
One caution when citing the awesomely cheap cost of college in most European countries.
It typically only applies to the top 20% or so. Imagine the furor in the US if you had everyones tax dollars subsidize just the top students from the wealthier families while the others got forced through the system to be truck drivers etc based on their test scores?
Most people touting the benefit really only have a superficial understanding of the downside, they just hear "free college" and get all excited.
P.S. My oldest is getting "free college" in the US because of their academics. It would be disingenuous for me to start threads about how you can attend good US schools for $5,000 a year without disclosing it's only for SOME.
true, at our middle school age the students are tested plus their performance to date. Those who make the cut go to 'gymnasiums' or higher level schools. those who don't go to trade and vocational school. Those from gymnasiums or equivalent go to a university on a space available basis. now the trade or vocational school may be quite technical leading to technical employment. or not.
It surprised me but when I had friends whose children went to gymnasiums where the children did their work in a fountain pen with no mark outs, erasures, or corrections. Including math. Can you imagine doing algebra etc with a fountain pen?
One caution when citing the awesomely cheap cost of college in most European countries.
It typically only applies to the top 20% or so.
You're off by a factor of 2. 39% of Danes between 25-34 have attained tertiary education.
Quote:
Imagine the furor in the US if you had everyones tax dollars subsidize just the top students from the wealthier families while the others got forced through the system to be truck drivers etc based on their test scores?
Weirdly enough, in Denmark the effect is the exact opposite: Social mobility is higher. More people move from the fifth quintile to the first one than do in the US.
As for Danish academics, "wealthy" has very little to do with it. Sure, some go overboard with private tutors etc. But the interesting thing is, no matter Daddy's money or legacy with the university, if you don't have the grades, you're not getting the slot. (That's oversimplified. There's a "Quota II" for those with obvious qualifications but lacking in formal education - 10 years of work experience in a relevant field or somesuch.) Now, that doesn't mean that there isn't an overrepresentation of higher-income students, because of course there is. Being brought up in a family where having academic ambitions is the norm is of course inducive to good study habits etc. And tertiary education helps with income.
Anyway, what's wrong with being a truck driver? Skilled work, important too.
But you don't understand. Cars are evil because they are individualistic! Who needs them when you can use that lovely public transport that the progressives made for you
LOL, Very true.
We do have a nice bus system that runs in Western Ventura County California. I used it for a bit when gas prices were closing in on $5 a gallon around here. Takes me about 15 minutes door to door from my house to work. With the nice bus system I would leave my home at 5:40am to walk the 20 minutes to the bus stop. Wait for the bus. Once the bus came it would take about 35 minutes to make the trip to a transfer station where many other city buses come to if you need to transfer to another bus. It would sit there for 15 minutes and then take another 10 minutes before it was in front of the hospital where I work. I would normally get off the bus and walk to the hospital from the transfer station, that walk took me about 10 minutes.
A 15 minute trip would take an hour and 5 minutes.
The return trip home was worse. I would walk the 10 minutes to the transfer center and the bus would get there maybe 15 minutes later. Since it was getting to the transfer center it would stay there for 10 minutes before leaving. The return bus was always full of people. It took even longer to get back. That trip was normally 40 or so minutes. and I still had a 10 minute walk home. So the return trip was about an hour and 25 minutes.
What I found though was riding a bike was even faster. I only live 8 miles away from the hospital.
More to the point, a high level of social benefits are easier to implement if the public isn't constantly inundated with propaganda expounding that greed and selfishness are virtues of the highest order.
I believe it's just as greedy and selfish to take more from those who earn more and decide to give to others -directly and indirectly. Greed is relative to one's political views.
The reality is socialism or more progressive liberalism just will not work in the US due to fact that you do not have a big majority that supports it--or is willing to pay for it.
You may have all seemed to totally miss Social Security (FICA) Taxes in your "models" for comparison?
That works out to a Tax on every dime and dollar of Earned Income even the Poorest Folks here pay.
8%+8% for conventional employment, and a little over 15% for self-employed. No exemptions, no deductions.
This is in addition to any income or other taxes.
That is HUGE and it hits the Poorest Folks the hardest.
"Unearned" or Investment Income is completely exempt from FICA, and for folks somewhere around $100K, it drops off to Zero.
Meanwhile, the US people face the Highest Medical Prices in the World -- due to our own Congress:
1. Paying US Medical Schools to limit enrollment (to run up prices),
2. Limiting Imports of Pharmaceuticals (to run up prices)
3. Expanding Patents (to run up prices)
4. Limiting Coverage Options (to run up prices)
No wonder that Medical Bills have been a leading cause of US Personal Bankruptcy.
Denmark has NONE of that nonsense nor expense.
Meanwhile that Poor Folks Tax (FICA) is used to fund the Federal Government Debt -- which is used to benefit Corporations with Low Taxes and No Tariffs, so that those Poor Folks' jobs can easily be exported. While we waste Mo Money Mo Money on Idiotic Things like Aircraft Carriers (19 now, all just sitting targets, even as we build more)
Comparing US and Denmark is probably not so valid -- We have over-whelming Corrupt and Stupid on our side.
Big Difference comes down to -- the US is Corporate-Corrupt and Denmark is not so much.
Phillip, your attitude is the exact reason that Denmarks system will not work in the US. EVERYONE in Denmark pays into the tax system. All income is taxed at 8% first, with only a deduction for interest and commuting. ALL income is taxed at 6% for the national health care. ALL CITIZENS pay the 25% sales tax. There are NO protected groups of people.
If you really want the Denmark system, you have to support the fact that every single person must pay taxes to support the government. No matter their income. It has to be fair for everyone.
The problem with socialists in the US, it they only want the rich to pay for everything, and the poor to get everything for free.
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