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Old 11-06-2015, 06:16 AM
 
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Comparing the economy of a country with a population shy of 6 million people whose economy revolves almost entirely around mature oil, to the US which has a population of over 310 million people, is so God damned moronic that I don't even know when to begin.

I'm so sick of hearing leftists in North America praise "Scandinavian-style socialism". I'm pretty sure the UN has Sweden falling below the United Arab Emirates in 2030 in their projected HDI rankings. Sweden is almost twice as large as Denmark in terms of population, and there's already talk from the Swedish Minister of Finance that the welfare state may be crumbling, and it will only be exacerbated by the migrant crisis currently underway in Europe.
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Old 11-06-2015, 10:51 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joey joe-joe View Post
Comparing the economy of a country with a population shy of 6 million people whose economy revolves almost entirely around mature oil, to the US which has a population of over 310 million people, is so God damned moronic that I don't even know when to begin.

I'm so sick of hearing leftists in North America praise "Scandinavian-style socialism". I'm pretty sure the UN has Sweden falling below the United Arab Emirates in 2030 in their projected HDI rankings. Sweden is almost twice as large as Denmark in terms of population, and there's already talk from the Swedish Minister of Finance that the welfare state may be crumbling, and it will only be exacerbated by the migrant crisis currently underway in Europe.
I am just tired of both *******s and wingnuts doing exactly what you just did. First you discount Denmark for is oil profits( again acting as if say California is a barren wasteland of no natural wealth), and then mention Sweden , which has no oil wealth, in the context of being a failed welfare state because of migrants. You have a point but not the one you thought you had. Distributing the natural wealth instead of privatized access charges for it does have an issue with invite the world. Naturally the economy that does not even allow its own inhabitants to have free access will have no need to worry about migrants . No you can't have free for all migration and welfare.

Then there is the opposite weakness of socialism. We don't just leach off the rest of the world for our good weather, we import publicly educated workers form socialist states into ours. This is a great place for debt free foreigners to compete with debt burdened Americans . Having been with a few foreign babes , I was several masters degree equivalents , all paid for by their former state. That is an insult to both systems. Their state idiotically gives aways education, while our boasts with the blush of parasitic blood with the native workers getting the short end of the stick and those with portfolios of assets getting lots of gravy.

You are both petulant children that refuse to do anything but pick from the plate. Not only is socialism vs capitalism not the main effect in all this, we are all varying degrees of socialists where the US can slightly underbid the rest to get leache's benefits. That is to say nothing of our reserve currency. That is easily measured in the trade deficit which we habitually run. We get a free 500 billion fund from the rest of the world every year.. The rest of the world pays our entire military budget....which dumps right back into our GDP.
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Old 11-06-2015, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,667 posts, read 6,554,276 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joey joe-joe View Post
Comparing the economy of a country with a population shy of 6 million people whose economy revolves almost entirely around mature oil, to the US which has a population of over 310 million people, is so God damned moronic that I don't even know when to begin.
What's moronic is the people who keep spouting nonsense about Denmark's economy revolving around oil. Parrots! Heard it somewhere, liked the sound of it, so repeats it over and over.

Compare Denmark's per capita oil production to the US and tell us what you find.
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Old 11-06-2015, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,667 posts, read 6,554,276 times
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Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
That is to say nothing of our reserve currency. That is easily measured in the trade deficit which we habitually run. We get a free 500 billion fund from the rest of the world every year.. The rest of the world pays our entire military budget....which dumps right back into our GDP.
The perpetual large trade deficit is what has killed domestic production and incomes, and greatly increased profits and fiscal debt. Unless you self identify with the top .1% "we" aren't benefiting from it.
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Old 11-06-2015, 11:19 AM
 
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Originally Posted by rruff View Post
The perpetual large trade deficit is what has killed domestic production and incomes, and greatly increased profits and fiscal debt. Unless you self identify with the top .1% "we" aren't benefiting from it.

No doubt:



Dutch Disease Definition | Investopedia
Negative consequences arising from large increases in a country's income. Dutch disease is primarily associated with a natural resource discovery, but it can result from any large increase in foreign currency, including foreign direct investment, foreign aid or a substantial increase in natural resource prices.

The Dutch saw their currency strengthen from their gas discovery. At least in that case it involved an actual industry. The reserve currency of the US strengthens the dollar in the exact same way. This cause our industry to have a head wind.
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Old 11-07-2015, 01:18 PM
 
20,577 posts, read 19,245,135 times
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Originally Posted by rruff View Post
You are looking at this very backwards. The poor aren't paying taxes in Denmark, rather they don't have the poor to begin with.

For instance: "The average minimum wage for all private and public sector collective bargaining agreements is approximately DKK 110 ($20) per hour, exclusive of pension benefits."

Also per the article they get huge unemployment benefits as well. Virtually everyone is making a good salary and therefore can afford to pay income taxes.
I cannot imagine anyone who publishes or writes anything these days can still not understand what sets wages, or any income. First there must be a surplus of course. There must be a penny to fight over. After that its, not who has the talent, who put in the hours, or any of that. Its who has the choke points. Google for example makes billions because they have a choke point where millions labor adding to their wealth. Google sits in the middle of it all. Every link adds to Google's wealth. So all Denmark does is choke off a little wage competition , and of course workers have a penny to tax. Basic wage labor with open borders and illegals drives down wages undermining any choke off of competition to allow workers to bargain.

Now what would we call it when the entire surplus or profit goes to one place? Central planning it what I'd call it.
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Old 11-07-2015, 05:19 PM
 
46,823 posts, read 25,751,383 times
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Originally Posted by joey joe-joe View Post
Comparing the economy of a country with a population shy of 6 million people whose economy revolves almost entirely around mature oil...
Denmark barely - barely - has enough oil for the country's own needs.
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Old 11-08-2015, 12:38 PM
 
Location: NH/UT/WA
283 posts, read 257,527 times
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Today Denmark doesn't get much of it's economy from oil and gas, but it used to. In the mid 2000s ~4% of Danish GDP was from the oil and gas sector. Danish oil production has dropped by over 60% in the last 10 years so and the price has dropped, so the share of it's economy has dropped dramatically. (source for oil and gas money from BP world energy database 2015, production multiplied by spot price, GDP data from World Bank, 2015 data are estimates based on current exchange rates, prices, and quarterly GDP)

year, GDP($US million), O&G value, % of economy
2015: $283,853 $3,726 1.31%
2014: $341,952 $7,481 2.19%
2013: $335,878 $9,024 2.69%
2012: $322,277 $10,702 3.32%
2011: $341,499 $11,736 3.44%
2010: $319,811 $9,715 3.04%
2009: $319,762 $8,003 2.50%
2008: $352,592 $14,606 4.14%
2007: $319,500 $11,016 3.45%
2006: $282,961 $11,326 4.00%
2005: $264,559 $10,476 3.96%

having ~4% of GDP from the oil and gas sector is probably higher than any other western economy outside of Canada (8-10%) and Norway (18-25%). Manufacturing is only 9% of Denmark's GDP.

The decline of the oil is probably also why Denmark's economy hasn't grown *at all* in the last 10 years.

GDP-PPP chained 2014 dollars (source: conference board Total economy database)
2015: $254,023
2006: $258,013

Far from "leaving the US in the dust" the Danish economy is one of the worst-perfoming economies on earth, registering 0 economic growth over the last 10 years. You have to go to perennial underperformers like like Italy or Japan, or basket cases like Greece or Syria to get less growth than that.
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Old 11-08-2015, 12:42 PM
 
Location: NH/UT/WA
283 posts, read 257,527 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
Denmark barely - barely - has enough oil for the country's own needs.
In 2014 Denmark produced 167k barrels per day and consumed 158k. In the early to mid 2000s, before the large production decline began in the North Sea oil, Denmark was producing around 350-400k barrels per day, more than double it's own needs.
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Old 11-08-2015, 12:57 PM
 
Location: NH/UT/WA
283 posts, read 257,527 times
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World's slowest-growing economies, 2005-2015:
(source: Total economy database, conference board)

-32.7% Syria
-16.6% Greece
-5.1% Italy
-1.3% Croatia
-0.6% Ukraine
-0.4% Portugal
3.0% Denmark
3.2% Cyprus
5.0% Spain
5.2% Finland
5.3% Japan
5.6% Barbados
7.5% Hungary
8.0% France
10.1% Netherlands
10.4% Slovenia
10.8% St. Lucia
11.4% Belgium
11.8% Ireland
12.3% Austria
12.5% UK
12.8% Yemen
13.6% Norway
14.2% Germany

Yep, Denmark is leaving us in the dust....

The only countries whose economies are growing slower than Denmark are basket cases, having civil wars, or both....
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