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Old 10-29-2015, 03:03 PM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,667 posts, read 6,595,121 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
It inevitably pushes wealth distribution upward. Even when we "fetter" it, we only temporarily push the distribution curve down, then find ourselves having to deal with the problems of upward distribution once again.
I don't know what the precise causes were, but we experienced ~45 year reversal of that trend from 1930-1975. I suspect it was an intentional reversal and the threat of communism was a primary driver. It not only strengthened our economy but also our social commitment.

I'm confident that we could do this again if we had the political ability and will.
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Old 10-29-2015, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
LOL agriculture! You need a few hundred thousand in capital to even think about becoming a farmer. Around me, working farms sell for 400K+ You need big money or family connections to make it in farming, preferably both.
I know a lot of farmers in the midwest and every one was the son of a farmer. The number of farmers is cut in half each generation as the equipment gets bigger and bigger, and the margins get smaller. It is not an easy business to get into by a long shot.
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Old 10-29-2015, 03:23 PM
 
5,760 posts, read 11,546,851 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff View Post
I don't know what the precise causes were, but we experienced ~45 year reversal of that trend from 1930-1975. I suspect it was an intentional reversal and the threat of communism was a primary driver. It not only strengthened our economy but also our social commitment.

I'm confident that we could do this again if we had the political ability and will.
hmmm. Want to see what is likely the Strongest Correlation?

Oil. We went from being a Net Exporter in those prior years, and started heavily importing in the Mid-70s.

To accept that is a (THE) Major Cause, one would have to accept Mercantilism is valid. Mercantilism being the concept that on the Export / Import level a country must be profitable, or at least break-even to break-even. (duh, huh?)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercantilism

All the rest of the World understands this, but unfortunately our MBAs have been mis-taught that we can lose money every year -- on idiotic Trade Deals -- but make up for it in Volume.

Yeah. Slow, Drowning Death by . . . Dumb.

US has been the biggest Trade Debtor for years, and it is slowly killing US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreig..._United_States

And the numbers and trade losses are All About Oil -- Not so much China, as we always hear.

But at any rate -- Take US off of Borrowing, Buying, Importing and Burning OIL . . . . and we would go right to the top, again. When you look at how big those numbers really are -- all the rest is just background noise.
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Old 10-29-2015, 03:33 PM
 
5,760 posts, read 11,546,851 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff View Post
I know a lot of farmers in the midwest and every one was the son of a farmer. The number of farmers is cut in half each generation as the equipment gets bigger and bigger, and the margins get smaller. It is not an easy business to get into by a long shot.
That is (now) kind of the backwards way to approach the whole business.

Maybe think a little bit Contrarian? When you see the Masses of Asses all doing one thing -- it may be smart to consider doing a Very Different Approach.

So as far as profitable modern farming -- rather than the Mass Money (Debt) where one struggles just to pay the interest, while sending all your money off to John Deere, the Fuel Companies and Monsanto . . . the SMART thing to do may be to go back to the "40 Acres and a Mule" model.

Let me give you an example -- 40 Acres of . . . . oh say Watermelons.

That would give around 2000 Water Melons per acre X 40 Acres = 80,000 Watermelons which Wholesale well over $1 each. So well over $80K gross income WITHOUT the Large Mass debt for Large Land and Large Equipment. All for a few months work.

Go fully organic and you get a LARGE Premium with no extra land and no extra expense.

You can do the same math with other specialty crops -- Pick a favorite, and we can do the math.
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Old 10-29-2015, 05:40 PM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,667 posts, read 6,595,121 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip T View Post
That would give around 2000 Water Melons per acre X 40 Acres = 80,000 Watermelons which Wholesale well over $1 each. So well over $80K gross income WITHOUT the Large Mass debt for Large Land and Large Equipment. All for a few months work.
In IL that 40 acres of land is still worth $400,000. Hardly a small investment!

If anyone is interested, I found a worksheet for PA. They estimate a profit of around $463/acre assuming you have a good year, ie not damaged by drought, disease, bugs, hail, etc. And the market is decent. That comes to a little over $18k profit for a 40 acre farm.

http://extension.psu.edu/business/ag...t-fresh-market
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Old 10-29-2015, 06:10 PM
 
5,760 posts, read 11,546,851 times
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Originally Posted by rruff View Post
In IL that 40 acres of land is still worth $400,000. Hardly a small investment!
Share Cropping allows one to farm with ZERO up-front land costs.

Remember? We were NOT going with the Masses for at least a couple of minutes.

We are using Critical Thinking Skills, and not just head nodding with convention.

Quote:

If anyone is interested, I found a worksheet for PA. They estimate a profit of around $463/acre assuming you have a good year, ie not damaged by drought, disease, bugs, hail, etc. And the market is decent. That comes to a little over $18k profit for a 40 acre farm.

http://extension.psu.edu/business/ag...t-fresh-market

Mkay. Super Job on the Self-Direction, there, btw.

I was actually surprised I hit the estimated yield straight on.

And they were expecting a market price of $3. I would not be inclined to estimate my market price that high. There is TREMENDOUS Risk in guessing too high. You know the proverb regarding "Counting your Chickens before they hatch," I suppose.

(just for disclosure, I used to Cash Crop farm in the US Midwest)

Now let's start applying those Critical Thinking Skills -- which are often not a whole lot more than the ability to ask "Is this True?"

Hit the first 6 "expenses" on the list.

Do we even want THOSE expenses in our budget or on our farm? We just destroyed our Organic Premium if we do so.

Do not want a bunch of the other expenses, either.

Did you see the nonsense about $500 per acre for Marketing and Advertising? That is total nonsense. Dunno if you know much about Small Business and Farm taxes and line item expenses . . . well . . . I have said too much.

Really if you would like to run down it with REAL numbers, we can.

Again, Super Job on the Look Up.

As an aside, I am presently working on Electrical Farm Equipment Designs -- Very Cheap Equipment and No Fuel Required.
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Old 10-29-2015, 06:25 PM
 
Location: Oceania
8,610 posts, read 7,894,412 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
I do think the shrinking rates of entrepreneurship, coupled with the decline in workforce participation, is troubling. We also have a large population of people with no marketable skills whatsoever. You need a highly functional and productive workforce to justify an ever rising standard of living under capitalism. Even then, the gains can be horded.

You define progressive liberalism in action. The one world government will see to all needs and the same goes to each equally=not much. A one world government, totalitarianism, does not promote exceptional, productive or functional workers. Sheer numbers is what makes that world spin. If one drops, toss another into the line.

This thread started out weird.
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Old 10-30-2015, 06:45 AM
 
Location: Northern Wisconsin
10,379 posts, read 10,917,022 times
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Socialism, is the race to the bottom. That is what we have primarily in this country is socialism, and that's why we are in a decline. Just like under the USSR.
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Old 10-30-2015, 06:49 AM
 
24,559 posts, read 18,259,472 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff View Post
I don't know what the precise causes were, but we experienced ~45 year reversal of that trend from 1930-1975. I suspect it was an intentional reversal and the threat of communism was a primary driver. It not only strengthened our economy but also our social commitment.

I'm confident that we could do this again if we had the political ability and will.

Let's try some basic history here....

What was the defining event of the 1930's? The Great Depression, maybe? The rich were mostly wiped out when the United States economy collapsed.

What event happened from 1939 to 1945? World War II, maybe? The rest of the industrialized world was bombed to rubble. In 1950, the United States was 50% of the world economy. That created 25+ years where there was no competition for US corporations. Labor costs simply didn't matter. Union work forces commanded middle class wages for working class repetitive task jobs. That is no longer true. People buy Toyota and Honda instead of Ford, Chrysler, and GM (other than pickup trucks). Airbus is the market leader with aircraft and Boeing employees can't simply demand infinite wages. Consumer electronics and textiles all moved to low labor cost Asia. What's left? High tech, finance, and agriculture. High tech pretty much only employs smart people. The bottom 80% don't get hired. Finance, even more so. We now have megafarms so few benefit from those profits.

What the heck could communism possibly have to do with it? Fear of it created Social Security in the Great Depression when everybody was poor. Since then, the United States has been far too prosperous.


The extremely unusual circumstances caused by the Great Depression and WW II have ended. We're back to the historical norm for income and wealth stratification. With global competition and automation, it's impossible to step into the time machine and revert to 1950. I think the United States will gradually drift towards some of the European Social Democracy policies targeted at families where both parents work. ACA already made many more of them eligible for Medicare. I think the next big hurdles are child care and job-specific education. (Not the "everybody goes to college for free" nonsense.) I don't think there will ever be a time where people are permanently handed money when they're not working. The safety net of unemployment insurance and TANF will always be temporary.
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Old 10-30-2015, 08:46 AM
 
4,586 posts, read 5,610,794 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by augiedogie View Post
Socialism, is the race to the bottom. That is what we have primarily in this country is socialism, and that's why we are in a decline. Just like under the USSR.
You obviously don't get the differences between "socialism" and what's happening here! Maybe learn more. IF we were socialists, there wouldn't be as much greed everywhere, and selfishness wouldn't run so rampantly!!!!

And we'd also have many unions protecting workers from greedy employers!!!!
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