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Old 07-01-2016, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Paranoid State
13,044 posts, read 13,811,665 times
Reputation: 15839

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Quote:
Originally Posted by justanokie View Post
Your entire comment is blathering about feelings and very little to do with economics. You should review again who has the weird notions. There is not a single point in your entire post.
^^^^ This! ^^^^ +1 ^^^^
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Old 07-01-2016, 12:54 PM
 
Location: Paranoid State
13,044 posts, read 13,811,665 times
Reputation: 15839
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
It has nothing to do with feelings. People should be able to make decent wages for a honest day's work.
Wow. You're just full of value judgments about other people. And feelings, btw.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
The things that matter cost much more - housing...
... because of governmental interference in the marketplace ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
... health care...
... because of governmental interference in the marketplace ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
... education...
... because of governmental interference in the marketplace ...



Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
... Then support tuition-free college instead, at least community college...
...Higher education is expensive *because of* governmental subsidies allowing colleges to raise tuition at will; besides, no one pays retail tuition except the wealthy...
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Old 07-01-2016, 01:02 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
10,022 posts, read 7,171,452 times
Reputation: 17121
Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeb View Post
The state also offers a scholarship that "funds to eligible graduates of A+ designated high schools who attend a participating public community college or vocational/technical school, or certain private two-year vocational/technical schools." So they don't even have any out of pocket expenses for associates degree or vocational school for trades, or part of a 4 year degree.
My state has something like that too, but it's an absurd mish-mash policy with a labyrinth of paperwork for the applicant. It would be so much easier if they just subsidized the colleges.

Back in the day when they were 50-80% state subsidized, if you met the minimum quals, you got into school mostly paid for. You then either passed the classes or you did not.

But no, the modern American way is to attach a bunch of caveats to a program to "help people" so you need as many bureaucrats to administer the system as you do people who actually use the program. Because God forbid we do something simple that helps society as a whole. No, got to stop those free riders who want something for nothing. We must only do things that help people who we feel are deserving, and we're going to have to hire a bunch of people to figure out who's deserving and who's not.


Quote:
Really, there are a lot of things high school kids can do, the fact that many of them ignore these opportunities doesn't mean they aren't there. There really isn't a good reason why high school grads can't make at least $15/hr as it is today if they had any kind of motivation in life. They don't need someone to rig the minimum wage so they can have a "living" wage. They have a living wage because they took what was provided to them and improved themselves to be worth $15
Our current young people are the most educated ever. When my dad went through high school about half of the starting class didn't graduate because you could just drop out & go to work back then. Today even the poorest high schools do better than a 50% graduation rate. The young people today have plenty of motivation. They are probably more stressed out than anyone before them - they get a constant barrage of information regarding how expensive college is, how prepared they need to be for the jobs of the future, how qualified they're going to have to be to even compete for middle class status, much less achieve it.
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Old 07-01-2016, 06:32 PM
 
1,901 posts, read 2,019,832 times
Reputation: 4143
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
It was either free in the case of city colleges or practically free in the case of state colleges & universities until the late 1970s, early 80s. What's happened since then are state subsidies have gone to near-zero. This is not a case of something that is impossible - it is something most other 1st world countries already do & that the U.S. actually USED TO DO!
My point was that its never free. Meaning that while the student may not pay, the taxpayers will. So while some few countries may offer tuition free college, none have free college where buildings, supplies, energy and water are zero cost and teachers are volunteers.

There were some state colleges that didn't charge tuition. Most started charging when the government started placing more and more entitlement programs on the books. Very few made it as far as the 70s. A handful maybe. To imply that tuition free colleges abounded up into the 70s and 80s is incorrect.

Most other 1st world countries do not offer tuition free college. Canada? Australia? Japan? UK? Belgium? Ireland? Austria? France? Spain? Italy? Nope, none of them do. So its not like the our measurement system where the US is a lonely life raft of stubbornness while everyone else uses metric.

The few countries that do offer tuition free college all have much higher income tax rates than the US. Germany has one of the most inclusive tuition free college programs in the world. They also have one of the highest tax rates in the world plus they have very high payroll tax rates. Even then, I read that only about 65% of German kids go on to college. Plus the college experience there is wildly different than what you get in the US. Some people there still opt to pay to send their kids to US colleges.

Lastly, If your family makes less than 65K a year or so you can go to some of the best schools in the US tuition free or a very low tuition cost. I think nearly all Ivy league schools in the US have a program that reduces or eliminates tuition for people in that situation. Many others around the country do also.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
Most employers expect you to be fully or at least mostly trained on day 1. In my wife's current job, they gave her a single full day of training, then expected her to do the job on her own. If she didn't, she was gone. She's very highly educated and could do it, but a lot of people don't have that capability.
Yes many employers expect you to be fully trained, and many also offer lengthy paid training. I never suggested someone without a degree or skills to apply to jobs that require them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
The military does not need that many people these days. Our big wars have wound down & they just have to keep up with replacing outgoing service-members. If you have health problem or a something on your record, they will reject you.
True, but they do still take people and they aren't nearly as hard to get into as a college.


Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
This is not as easy as you think. It can take years just to get your foot in the door for something like plumbing or electrician apprenticeships. You need a connection.
Not true. I see ads locally that constantly want electrician apprentices. These ads mention nothing about needing a connection. I see some for plumbing, welding and others also.


Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
With what startup capital? Even a food truck will take at least $50K worth of capital to get started.
LOL. Seriously. I watched a kid start a very successful landscaping business with a pushmower. He has 4 or 5 crews and probably several hundred grand worth of equipment now. I think he might be making more than I am.

There are many many businesses you can start with just a few grand. There are many you can start with just a few hundred.

EDIT:

This is good. I just saw another post on this forum that pertains to this issue

How a 15-year-old Cleveland entrepreneur made $20,000 for his bicycle lawn care business

He just got $20K to start a business by putting together a good plan and getting it up on gofundme.

Some people cry about what they don't have and want others to pay for it, others go out and figure out how to get it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
Then why aren't they already doing that?
Because they aren't motivated. This is the type of person who goes to college and expects some great job to land in their lap just because they have a degree. If you want a good job in this life you have to go get it.

Last edited by justanokie; 07-01-2016 at 07:03 PM..
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Old 07-01-2016, 08:08 PM
 
4,369 posts, read 3,703,852 times
Reputation: 2479
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanokie View Post
My point was that its never free. Meaning that while the student may not pay, the taxpayers will. So while some few countries may offer tuition free college, none have free college where buildings, supplies, energy and water are zero cost and teachers are volunteers.

There were some state colleges that didn't charge tuition. Most started charging when the government started placing more and more entitlement programs on the books. Very few made it as far as the 70s. A handful maybe. To imply that tuition free colleges abounded up into the 70s and 80s is incorrect.

Most other 1st world countries do not offer tuition free college. Canada? Australia? Japan? UK? Belgium? Ireland? Austria? France? Spain? Italy? Nope, none of them do. So its not like the our measurement system where the US is a lonely life raft of stubbornness while everyone else uses metric.

The few countries that do offer tuition free college all have much higher income tax rates than the US. Germany has one of the most inclusive tuition free college programs in the world. They also have one of the highest tax rates in the world plus they have very high payroll tax rates. Even then, I read that only about 65% of German kids go on to college. Plus the college experience there is wildly different than what you get in the US. Some people there still opt to pay to send their kids to US colleges.

Lastly, If your family makes less than 65K a year or so you can go to some of the best schools in the US tuition free or a very low tuition cost. I think nearly all Ivy league schools in the US have a program that reduces or eliminates tuition for people in that situation. Many others around the country do also.



Yes many employers expect you to be fully trained, and many also offer lengthy paid training. I never suggested someone without a degree or skills to apply to jobs that require them.




True, but they do still take people and they aren't nearly as hard to get into as a college.




Not true. I see ads locally that constantly want electrician apprentices. These ads mention nothing about needing a connection. I see some for plumbing, welding and others also.




LOL. Seriously. I watched a kid start a very successful landscaping business with a pushmower. He has 4 or 5 crews and probably several hundred grand worth of equipment now. I think he might be making more than I am.

There are many many businesses you can start with just a few grand. There are many you can start with just a few hundred.

EDIT:

This is good. I just saw another post on this forum that pertains to this issue

How a 15-year-old Cleveland entrepreneur made $20,000 for his bicycle lawn care business

He just got $20K to start a business by putting together a good plan and getting it up on gofundme.

Some people cry about what they don't have and want others to pay for it, others go out and figure out how to get it.




Because they aren't motivated. This is the type of person who goes to college and expects some great job to land in their lap just because they have a degree. If you want a good job in this life you have to go get it.
Golly gee you're right. Kids should go down to their local malt shop, diner, or drive in theater and get a job on the spot. After working for a week they should use their savings to buy out the owner. After that they buy the local factory and become a philanthropist
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Old 07-01-2016, 09:47 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,758 posts, read 26,022,718 times
Reputation: 33870
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perma Bear View Post
Golly gee you're right. Kids should go down to their local malt shop, diner, or drive in theater and get a job on the spot. After working for a week they should use their savings to buy out the owner. After that they buy the local factory and become a philanthropist
Yep, you nailed it! I love the bootstrapper stories, don't you? Particularly when if you think about it it is a physical impossibility to lift yourself up by your boot straps

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Old 07-01-2016, 10:26 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
10,022 posts, read 7,171,452 times
Reputation: 17121
Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post
Wow. You're just full of value judgments about other people. And feelings, btw.



... because of governmental interference in the marketplace ...



... because of governmental interference in the marketplace ...



... because of governmental interference in the marketplace ...





...Higher education is expensive *because of* governmental subsidies allowing colleges to raise tuition at will; besides, no one pays retail tuition except the wealthy...
It has nothing to do with government interference. State universities used to be almost fully state supported. As you'd expect with "state" in their names. Now they should be more accurately called public-private partnerships, as state funding is down to 10-20% of their budgets in many states.

We've moved to the less efficient method of loaning money to students to cover the shortfall. The colleges then have to compete for that money in increasingly creative ways like housing and "experience," since 18 year olds are not particularly swayed by rigorous of courses.
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Old 07-02-2016, 04:44 AM
 
4,231 posts, read 3,538,238 times
Reputation: 2207
Default Something "unexpected" happened with raised minimum wages!!

I never thought such a thing would happen

Quote:
One year later, something "unexpected" has happened as a result of the Schultz' all too eager push to "share" his company's success by hiking minimum wages, namely the realization by the company's employees (if not so much the CEO, management and certainly shareholders) that total compensation is a function of two things: hourly wages and number of hours worked.

As Reuters reports, an online petition accusing Starbucks of "extreme" cutbacks in work hours at its U.S. cafes, hurting both employee morale and customer service, has been signed by more than 9,000 people. Suddenly Starbucks' eagerness to raise its wages becomes all too clear: after all, it would merely have to reduce work hours, to keep profitability humming.

The world's biggest coffee chain, trying to address cooling growth at its U.S. shops, recently introduced technology that allows customers to order and pay from mobile devices. That service aims to boost sales and reduce bottlenecks in stores; it also aims to reduce work hours.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-0...-minimum-wages

What good is a higher minimum wage if you're unable to keep your hours

And i guess Seattle is even more progressive with minimum wage, probably highest.

So what's gonna happen now
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Old 07-02-2016, 05:52 AM
 
7,898 posts, read 7,085,925 times
Reputation: 18587
I have no idea why this is "unexpected." As minimum wage increases go into effect, we can expect a lot of changes.


Put yourself in the position of a small business operator who needs to utilize low wage employees. Fewer small businesses are being started, failure rates are high and there is endless financial pressure. Increased wages will be a final blow for many and they will go out of business. Others will cope by cutting back on hiring, pushing for more productivity, replacing jobs with technology, cutting back on hours of operation, etc. If I were a small business owner, I would be looking to hire only those with experience and good references. No more hiring for the young and inexperienced workers. I would be a lot quicker to fire employees with work issues such as having issues with sick kids or day care coverage. Whenever possible I would go with part time rather than full time workers.
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Old 07-02-2016, 06:33 AM
 
4,231 posts, read 3,538,238 times
Reputation: 2207
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrkliny View Post
I have no idea why this is "unexpected." As minimum wage increases go into effect, we can expect a lot of changes.


Put yourself in the position of a small business operator who needs to utilize low wage employees. Fewer small businesses are being started, failure rates are high and there is endless financial pressure. Increased wages will be a final blow for many and they will go out of business. Others will cope by cutting back on hiring, pushing for more productivity, replacing jobs with technology, cutting back on hours of operation, etc. If I were a small business owner, I would be looking to hire only those with experience and good references. No more hiring for the young and inexperienced workers. I would be a lot quicker to fire employees with work issues such as having issues with sick kids or day care coverage. Whenever possible I would go with part time rather than full time workers.
Government should punish those businesses cutting hours

It's totally unfair.
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