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Old 02-25-2016, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,667 posts, read 6,590,852 times
Reputation: 4817

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Europeanflava View Post
Then what needs to be done is to give everyone out there a free $800-$1500 a month.
Less. $8k per year plus healthcare is enough, and a good place to start. Any higher and you run into bigger funding issues, as well as making low-skill jobs not worth the trouble.

Peg it to per capita GDP and Gini coefficient, so the amount changes sensibly and is not subject to political wrangling.
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Old 02-25-2016, 01:02 PM
 
1,006 posts, read 1,511,814 times
Reputation: 922
Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff View Post
Less. $8k per year plus healthcare is enough, and a good place to start. Any higher and you run into bigger funding issues, as well as making low-skill jobs not worth the trouble.

Peg it to per capita GDP and Gini coefficient, so the amount changes sensibly and is not subject to political wrangling.
The problem with low skill jobs right now is there are far too many applicants. Maybe if we just gave everyone a free pay check each month that would lessen the demand and force these tycoons to raise the pay of all these low skill jobs that require so much work yet pay so little.

and $8k a year is not enough. You need at least around $20k a year these days to offset the sky high cost of living and not have to do without things each month.
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Old 02-26-2016, 01:42 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,022 posts, read 2,272,347 times
Reputation: 2168
Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff View Post
BI would be just enough to barely live in poverty in a cheap area. I don't see anyone saving for college on that.
By itself no of course not but if you work a job plus basic income it should be enough and that is the point of basic income.
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Old 02-26-2016, 01:45 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,022 posts, read 2,272,347 times
Reputation: 2168
Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonMike7 View Post
Quite the opposite in my experience. Most of the college kids I went to school with took out loans and paid them back on their own.
How many college kids did you know? 10? 20? The college kids you know is a small sample and does not represent the big picture of college kids.
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Old 02-26-2016, 05:53 AM
 
3,092 posts, read 1,945,272 times
Reputation: 3030
Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeb View Post
Instead of basic income, I would rather have a basic work program... ie, if you don't have enough income, you can work minimum wage doing public service.... let's see how quickly it encourages people to strike out on their own and earn more too.
This is a terrible idea. More wage deflation is the exact opposite of what we need.
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Old 02-26-2016, 12:56 PM
 
9,837 posts, read 4,632,444 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
A basic income is inevitable. Its entirely improper right now, however now is the time to begin the discussion and some trials..

Automation (and other technologies) is absolutely going to unemploy vast numbers of us....all the while increasing productivity by huge amounts.

It is perhaps the most challenging part of mankind's future, we have to find a way for people to aspire and achieve in a world that has little to no need for averagely skilled peoples.

For the USA this may well be our breaking point, I don't know that we will be able to cross that bridge. It is just as likely we will descend deeper into our internal hateful blame game.
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Old 02-26-2016, 01:02 PM
 
9,837 posts, read 4,632,444 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by high iron View Post
This is not science fiction. It's literally true, right now. In the course of my strange passage through life I have worked hand in glove with these people in one of their private think tanks, and that's exactly how they feel.

Essential reading for people interested in the consequences of total automation. Free ebook, deals with all the issues in this thread:

The Lights In the Tunnel - Automation, Accelerating Technology and the Economy of the Future
who are "they" exactly. I you have to be dumb or young to believe that "They " exist. Mostly "They" are made up of people who are surprised to be there.
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Old 02-26-2016, 01:06 PM
 
9,837 posts, read 4,632,444 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post
This is an economics forum. You do realize that, right? "Deserve" is a non-concept in economics. It has significant meaning in a politics forum, or perhaps even a sociology forum, but not in an economics forum.
by failing to take account of "Deserve" etc your create an unrealistic model.

I believe the Econ excluded these things because we did not have the ability to build such complex models, but with the Advent of tech perhaps that is exactly what we should be doing.
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Old 02-26-2016, 01:08 PM
 
10,075 posts, read 7,534,604 times
Reputation: 15501
Quote:
Originally Posted by dysgenic View Post
This is a terrible idea. More wage deflation is the exact opposite of what we need.
as opposed to just giving them money for doing nothing?

Them sitting at home does not enhance their skills.... at least they could scrub roads/plant trees/dig holes/repair pipes/things to help improve country since tax money is being used to supplement their income...

if they want off of "public service", they can get a job and not rely on it
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Old 02-26-2016, 02:00 PM
 
9,837 posts, read 4,632,444 times
Reputation: 7292
Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeb View Post
as opposed to just giving them money for doing nothing?

Them sitting at home does not enhance their skills.... at least they could scrub roads/plant trees/dig holes/repair pipes/things to help improve country since tax money is being used to supplement their income...

if they want off of "public service", they can get a job and not rely on it
you have totally missed the point and are thinking in 1900s terms.


We are coming to a point where there will simply not be enough work to go around. Don't delude yourself into thinking it will only impact the lazy, dull witted and "entitled" folk. It will fully hit you me , your dad, my mom and most (MOST) other people.

The squeeze is already taking place.

Think of jobs as sport. Most people will never be good enough to play pro (insert random sport) .

If they lack the prerequisite body type or natural skillset no amount of trying or wanting it is likely to get them on the team.
We don't blame our sons and daughters for being the wrong height, why would we blame someone in the future for not having an IQ of 180 and the hand to eye coordination of a Olympic gold medalist.


The writing is on the wall, and while augmentation might delay it for some , in the end the vast majority of people on the planet will be unemployed and underemployed and that is what we must plan for.


We need a sold plan to ensure the vast majority believe they have a real stake in the future.


Legal weed will help. Excellent video games and virtual reality will help . But people will need something to hope for, strive for and look forward too.


worrying about entitlement is simply shuffling deck chairs.
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