Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 06-04-2016, 01:05 AM
 
Location: Ohio
1,884 posts, read 986,585 times
Reputation: 2868

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
And then theres factual REALITY where data indicates you don't understand things at all, all the while saying anyone with "basic intelligence" should.

Google the manitoba experiment-it has actual data from a Canadian experiment in basic income. Turns out we are pretty motivated even when our basic needs are met. I'm often amused by people who talk about how everyone would quit....when asked they often indicate "Oh no, not me, I would keep working". Yes, you're not special. The vast majority of us would keep working. SURPRISE!

Your analogy is false.
It's funny when people point towards the unemployed to "show you" how all people act on welfare.

When really, welfare over-represents the unmotivated, drug-addicted, disabled, etc (not that you have to be any of these things to poor). Most of the naturally hard workers who would still work on a basic income are CURRENTLY WORKING.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-04-2016, 05:15 PM
 
Location: Ohio
24,624 posts, read 19,039,113 times
Reputation: 21728
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lycanmaster View Post
Here comes another another unlikely advocate for it from Bill Gross:

Quote:
Noted capitalist Bill Gross wants the Federal Reserve to print money and just hand it out to ordinary citizens, regardless of whether they are productive members of society or drug-addled bums.

That’s right, in his latest investment outlook the bond king has endorsed a radical proposal that is being embraced in some circles on both the left and the right, called universal basic income.
Bill Gross Endorses Universal Basic Income in Investment Outlook - Fortune
And printing money is something you'll be doing.

If we use LNU00000000, which is the Non-institutionalized Population over age 16 we have a figure of
253,174,000 people.

We don't give Basic Income to prisoners or age group 16-17, but we would give it to people in hospital, in hospice, in nursing homes and in medical rehabilitation centers, so all things being equal, 253,174,000 people is a good number.

To give everyone $2,500 per month like the Swiss want to do is

253,174,000 * $2,500 * 12 = $7.6 TRILLION annually.

That's ~7 times what you're currently paying for the 79 Welfare Programs that cost $1.3 TRILLION annually.

Even if you reduced it to $1,200 per month ($600 for housing, $400 food, $200 medical), the bill is still

253,174,000 * $1,200 * 12 = $3.66 TRILLION annually.

If you eliminate the 1% and turn it from Basic Income to a Welfare Handout, then you'd cut out 1,855,126 people, so then

251,318,874 * $2,500 * 12 = $7.52 TRILLION per year

or

251,318,874 * $1,200 * 12 = $3.62 TRILLION per year


On top of that, we're supposed to believe that the federal government will voluntarily give up the power, control and influence it exercises over the People & the several States through the Department of Agriculture (Food Stamps), H&HS (TANF) and HUD (Section 8 Housing).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-04-2016, 06:42 PM
 
90 posts, read 100,418 times
Reputation: 41
Be nice if these rich CEOs and business owners will just pay my rent each month. All the Basic income I need.. Good chunk of anybody paycheck goes toward some over price housing market. I mean seriously, if you can figure out a way to stop the housing market from inflation such as rent, that itself is a boost on anybody paycheck.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-04-2016, 09:21 PM
 
34,258 posts, read 19,223,309 times
Reputation: 17237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
And printing money is something you'll be doing.

If we use LNU00000000, which is the Non-institutionalized Population over age 16 we have a figure of
253,174,000 people.

We don't give Basic Income to prisoners or age group 16-17, but we would give it to people in hospital, in hospice, in nursing homes and in medical rehabilitation centers, so all things being equal, 253,174,000 people is a good number.

To give everyone $2,500 per month like the Swiss want to do is

253,174,000 * $2,500 * 12 = $7.6 TRILLION annually.

That's ~7 times what you're currently paying for the 79 Welfare Programs that cost $1.3 TRILLION annually.

Even if you reduced it to $1,200 per month ($600 for housing, $400 food, $200 medical), the bill is still

253,174,000 * $1,200 * 12 = $3.66 TRILLION annually.

If you eliminate the 1% and turn it from Basic Income to a Welfare Handout, then you'd cut out 1,855,126 people, so then

251,318,874 * $2,500 * 12 = $7.52 TRILLION per year

or

251,318,874 * $1,200 * 12 = $3.62 TRILLION per year


On top of that, we're supposed to believe that the federal government will voluntarily give up the power, control and influence it exercises over the People & the several States through the Department of Agriculture (Food Stamps), H&HS (TANF) and HUD (Section 8 Housing).
And income would go up, spending would go up, etc etc. TONS of stuff would occur, savings from prisons would occur, and more. Our population would be able to take the time to actually transition to the next level of economy, with massive investment in R&D by a population that can spend the time and effort for it.

And.....I agree with you 100%. The time for it is not now. While I think its inevitable, The cost (despite the many savings and benefits) just dont quite make it. Maybe in a few years, or a few decades. But what will push it over the edge is massive technological unemployment, and when that occurs the government will choose it-be honest what gives the government more power, food stamps, or basic income? Yeah.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-05-2016, 07:58 PM
 
Location: Ohio
24,624 posts, read 19,039,113 times
Reputation: 21728
Quote:
Final results from Sunday's referendum showed that nearly 77% opposed the plan, with only 23% backing it. The proposal had called for adults to be paid an unconditional monthly income, whether they worked or not. The supporters camp had suggested a monthly income of 2,500 Swiss francs (£1,755; $2,555) for adults and also SFr625 for each child.

The amounts reflected the high cost of living in Switzerland. It is not clear how the plan would have affected people on higher salaries. The supporters had also argued that since work was increasingly automated, fewer jobs were available for workers. Switzerland is the first country to hold such a vote.
Switzerland's voters rejects basic income plan - BBC News

Well, there you go.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-06-2016, 09:09 AM
 
Location: NYC
20,550 posts, read 17,501,820 times
Reputation: 25616
Almost 1/2 the US population pays no income tax and get a refund on the expense of the other half.

Majority of those that pays no income tax after refund also gets govt subsidies with health insurance and who pays for that again?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-06-2016, 09:13 AM
 
Location: SoCal
20,160 posts, read 12,657,481 times
Reputation: 16993
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
I didn't think it would happen.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-06-2016, 03:38 PM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,478 posts, read 59,535,221 times
Reputation: 24856
I would welcome an additional $2,500 to my pension. That would make foreign travel possible. Might even let me buy a house in New Mexico so I could get away from New Hampshire winters.


The neat part is I and my wife are likely be dead before the elites realize that the previously less than proper were polluting the Casino in Monte Carlo and put an end to the party.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-06-2016, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,478 posts, read 59,535,221 times
Reputation: 24856
To the Rep person. Yeah, why not? We pay the executives and lobbyists of the military contractors along with the guys running the pharmaceutical industries far more and the RWA's never complain about that. Hell, I only considered $2,500 a month. Some of these thieves make more than that an hour. So who is the real thief?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-07-2016, 09:44 AM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,667 posts, read 6,546,805 times
Reputation: 4817
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
That proposal was incredibly poorly written. It was just tossed out for publicity.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top