Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-12-2016, 09:26 AM
 
18,801 posts, read 8,465,846 times
Reputation: 4130

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by J.Thomas View Post
We built China
We bought stuff from China in exchange for our green papers. They have used some of our papers to buy what they need in the world. But most all of China's build up has been Yuan based. Their own green papers. Either created out of thin air centrally, or via their banks through more conventional and open lending, or whatever, no one outside their central command knows all the numbers.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-12-2016, 09:36 AM
 
18,547 posts, read 15,577,181 times
Reputation: 16230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
The term "anarchy" is frequently, and intentionally though incorrectly, used by those who 1) have a horrible view of man and 2) extend that view to SMEAR FREEDOM.

So what you have to do is change your incorrect personal view of Man to reflect reality: We are basically at our core good, decent, rational, and able to live in a productive voluntary free society based on Reason and Trade, rather than Mysticism and Coercion.

Once you do that, which you won't, but hypothetically, you will then be able to realize, using Reason and Logic, that freedom does not equal anarchy, and freedom does not imply a lack of governance or structure.

So that's your homework assignment. Figure out what it is in your personal life that caused you to have an incorrect, and I might say warped, view of Man. Once you fix that, which you won't, but hypothetically, you will see the opportunity and moral imperative of living in a society that emphasizes freedom, individual rights, private property, and an economy based on trade, not coercion.
YOUR view is the warped one. All through history people kill each other.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-12-2016, 10:31 AM
 
Location: North West Arkansas (zone 6b)
2,776 posts, read 3,246,104 times
Reputation: 3912
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
"Take and redistribute".


And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how we all going to die.
perhaps "TAX" would have been a better term.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-12-2016, 10:42 AM
 
5,760 posts, read 11,542,728 times
Reputation: 4949
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
Nonsense. A free economy without government intervention and spending would dwarf what we have now. Absolutely dwarf it. That's what freedom does. Look it up.
Ummm. We have.

We found your "died of a theory" economics under "other myths and nonsense."

Look . . . Mercantilism is still a Very Real thing. Maybe you look that up?

We will wait.

I follow you Have a bad case of the "Free Men and Free Markets" nonsense -- but there aint no such thing here on Planet Dumb.

And the only folks dumb enough to try your ideas are broke or heading that way.

That would be US, leading the way.

Here is Reality . . . .

Tariffs (Import Taxes -- BIG ONES) could balance things enough to try your ideas . . . BUT the same "Free Markets" folks (Transnational Corporations and Banking) tend to be massive Free-Loaders themselves (and do not want to actually pay any Taxes or Tariffs, themselves) . . . so we can just about forget about it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-12-2016, 10:51 AM
 
5,760 posts, read 11,542,728 times
Reputation: 4949
so. Back out of Crack-pot 1980's philosophy and FREEDOM, FREEDOM, FREE MARKETS, FREELOADERS, stuff.

-----------------

J. Thomas -- why do you have this obsession with Growth, Growth, Growth for the sake of . . . Growth? Is that is it? Really. Real Question.

Have you confused Quantity with Quality? Again, Real Question.

I have looked at Cross (culture, systems, physics, biology, nature) Modeling for ANY Analogy to Growth-for-the-sake-of-Growth.

The only two things I have found that successfully model Growth-for-the-sake-of-Growth are:

1. Morbid Obesity.

2. Cancer.

Does not seem like such a Good Plan?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-12-2016, 11:07 AM
 
4,231 posts, read 3,556,659 times
Reputation: 2207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip T View Post
so. Back out of Crack-pot 1980's philosophy and FREEDOM, FREEDOM, FREE MARKETS, FREELOADERS, stuff.

-----------------

J. Thomas -- why do you have this obsession with Growth, Growth, Growth for the sake of . . . Growth? Is that is it? Really. Real Question.

Have you confused Quantity with Quality? Again, Real Question.

I have looked at Cross (culture, systems, physics, biology, nature) Modeling for ANY Analogy to Growth-for-the-sake-of-Growth.

The only two things I have found that successfully model Growth-for-the-sake-of-Growth are:

1. Morbid Obesity.

2. Cancer.

Does not seem like such a Good Plan?
We need growth man.

You have no idea!!!

We're dying, dying!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-12-2016, 12:13 PM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,667 posts, read 6,592,327 times
Reputation: 4817
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip T View Post
Does not seem like such a Good Plan?
Growth in economic terms means productivity increases, usually driven by tech advances.

For the last 40 years or so all of our growth has gone to the mega rich, so the rest of us haven't experienced growth. Only change.

But say we did experience a real increase, do we really need more stuff? Overall I don't think so, but it could be distributed more equally. Rather we could work less. Many developed countries have already gone down that road.

In the good ole USA though we worship a lot of nonsensical ideals and propaganda and 99% of the public appears to be too distracted and stupid to understand what is happening. So I think we'll get more of the same. Or worse. If growth stopped, that would mean that the mega rich could only get richer if we got poorer.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-12-2016, 12:18 PM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,667 posts, read 6,592,327 times
Reputation: 4817
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
We bought stuff from China in exchange for our green papers.
Debt.

The US went into hock, escalated debt, depressed wages, and floated bubbles (which popped).

China got rich. So did US oligarchs. Who do you think engineered this scheme? Follow the money...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-12-2016, 12:28 PM
 
4,231 posts, read 3,556,659 times
Reputation: 2207
We immediately need to stop buying stuff from China.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-12-2016, 12:34 PM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,667 posts, read 6,592,327 times
Reputation: 4817
Quote:
Originally Posted by eok View Post
And the problem with wanting a much smaller government is that it will be made smaller the wrong way. The parts that oppress the 1% will be made smaller, but the parts that oppress the 99% won't be, and the oppression will increase, to make up for the reduction of the oppression of the 1%.


The founding fathers were in a perfect position to promote a governmentless utopia, but they weren't idiots. Rather they were concerned about creating a system that would make it as difficult as possible for power hungry *******s to usurp the freedom and prosperity of the common man.

It's also important to note that this was pre-industrial and the great majority of citizens were small time farmers. Anyone who doesn't understand the huge change that industrialization forced on the socio-economic situation, and why we need massive wealth redistribution (like every other developed country), doesn't belong on an economic forum.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top