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Old 04-27-2016, 10:46 AM
 
23,177 posts, read 12,057,551 times
Reputation: 29347

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrkliny View Post
People want to believe what they want to believe. Putting facts, analysis and logic in the way is not helping.
Except there has been very few facts introduced. Lots of armchair theory and logic about what people believe a higher minimum wage should do or would do. This is like trying to play the stock market with analysts predicting what factors will result in what consequences for whom but at the end of the day it seldom plays out as predicted because there are so many other variables.

Why don't we simply look at past MW increases and see what actually happened? You want to claim a MW increase will raise or lower GDP? Then show that past increases raised or lowered GDP. You want to claim a MW increase will raise or lower unemployment? Then show that past increases raised or lowered unemployment.
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Old 04-27-2016, 10:47 AM
 
3,792 posts, read 2,366,837 times
Reputation: 768
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrkliny View Post
SportyandMisty,


Your ideas really do not fit with the beliefs of those who post on this forum. No one wants to hear facts, economic analysis, and logic. And it is not just on this forum. Look at the political arena. We have Trump and Sanders promising to fix everything. Sanders is all for the minimum wage increase to $15/hr. And that is just the start. He promises free healthcare, free college, and I also seem to remember free day care as well. Wall Street is going to pay for it. I am not exactly sure what that means. I suppose he will tax to death anyone who tries to invest in businesses by buying stocks or bonds. Of course, the Wall Street idea is no more far fetched than the Donald who is going to have Mexico build a 50 foot wall.


People want to believe what they want to believe. Putting facts, analysis and logic in the way is not helping.
You said it. Particularly if it didn't come out of a text book but came from looking at the real world.
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Old 04-27-2016, 10:50 AM
 
3,792 posts, read 2,366,837 times
Reputation: 768
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia View Post
Except there has been very few facts introduced. Lots of armchair theory and logic about what people believe a higher minimum wage should do or would do. This is like trying to play the stock market with analysts predicting what factors will result in what consequences for whom but at the end of the day it seldom plays out as predicted because there are so many other variables.

Why don't we simply look at past MW increases and see what actually happened? You want to claim a MW increase will raise or lower GDP? Then show that past increases raised or lowered GDP. You want to claim a MW increase will raise or lower unemployment? Then show that past increases raised or lowered unemployment.
Why not in deed? The peek minimum wage in % of average hourly wage came in the 1950's. During that time we had high economic growth.


We also had low total debt in % of GDP.
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Old 04-27-2016, 10:57 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles (Native)
25,303 posts, read 21,297,310 times
Reputation: 12312
Yes ,exactly. Spot on.
Speaking of hot dogs.
There is a hot dog chain that has vocalized exactly what you mentioned.

"The owners of Dog Haus, a chain of about 20 franchise restaurants in the West, may have customers pick up their meals at the counters in two company-owned stores instead of using servers to carry food to tables. The Pasadena, California-based company is also looking at hiring more experienced workers who can shoulder more responsibilities than entry-level staffers who earn minimum wage. For example, a cashier might now take on some administrative tasks. That way, Dog Haus could hire fewer people."
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/16d6f...sinesses-adapt

The crazy part is that business owners are spelling out what they will do, but the pro $15hr crowd is still in denial.
This was supposed to help those with no skills and lack of formal education , I wouldn't be surprised if fast food places start putting "College Degree or college coursework preferred" in their job postings.
I know right now in L.A there are TONS of jobs requiring or 'preferring' college degrees paying less than $15 hr.
Employers expect strong computer skills, etc for even $12 hr jobs.
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Old 04-27-2016, 11:12 AM
 
4,231 posts, read 3,530,760 times
Reputation: 2207
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm1982 View Post
Yes ,exactly. Spot on.
Speaking of hot dogs.
There is a hot dog chain that has vocalized exactly what you mentioned.

"The owners of Dog Haus, a chain of about 20 franchise restaurants in the West, may have customers pick up their meals at the counters in two company-owned stores instead of using servers to carry food to tables. The Pasadena, California-based company is also looking at hiring more experienced workers who can shoulder more responsibilities than entry-level staffers who earn minimum wage. For example, a cashier might now take on some administrative tasks. That way, Dog Haus could hire fewer people."
As minimum wage marches toward $15, small businesses adapt

The crazy part is that business owners are spelling out what they will do, but the pro $15hr crowd is still in denial.
This was supposed to help those with no skills and lack of formal education , I wouldn't be surprised if fast food places start putting "College Degree or college coursework preferred" in their job postings.
I know right now in L.A there are TONS of jobs requiring or 'preferring' college degrees paying less than $15 hr.
Employers expect strong computer skills, etc for even $12 hr jobs.
Well it seems they'll need managing skills for $15/h.
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Old 04-27-2016, 11:14 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,744 posts, read 25,902,439 times
Reputation: 33824
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm1982 View Post
Yes moving is a pain for anyone, but it seems the trade off of short term 'pain' would be worth it if it means less struggling in the long term.
You claim to live with your parents, it might be wise for you to withhold your opinion on the costs and difficulty in relocating until such time that you are tasked with making these decisions on your own.
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Old 04-27-2016, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,744 posts, read 25,902,439 times
Reputation: 33824
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm1982 View Post
This was supposed to help those with no skills and lack of formal education , I wouldn't be surprised if fast food places start putting "College Degree or college coursework preferred" in their job postings. I know right now in L.A there are TONS of jobs requiring or 'preferring' college degrees paying less than $15 hr. Employers expect strong computer skills, etc for even $12 hr jobs.
And the fact that people with college degrees are accepting jobs for less than $15 an hour is exactly why it is necessary to push wages up. It's clear that employers are not going to increase wages on their own. Wages have been stagnant for two decades, who do you think that benefits (hint: it's not employees)
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Old 04-27-2016, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles (Native)
25,303 posts, read 21,297,310 times
Reputation: 12312
Live with my parents? What are you talking about?...I haven't for years...but you seem so interested in my personal life..maybe I should be flattered?..
Furthermore , do to the policies that you rabidly and illogically support more people will be living with their parents.
Maybe should start investing in stock of companies that make bunk beds.
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Old 04-27-2016, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles (Native)
25,303 posts, read 21,297,310 times
Reputation: 12312
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
And the fact that people with college degrees are accepting jobs for less than $15 an hour is exactly why it is necessary to push wages up. It's clear that employers are not going to increase wages on their own. Wages have been stagnant for two decades, who do you think that benefits (hint: it's not employees)
"We're going to FORCE those GREED employers making 3 or 4% return per year to PAY MORE"

Yes you are forcing them and they are going to pay more...to more skilled workers. Don't you realize they can't afford to pay these people $15hr , they are going to be hiring different people...with more skills to work these jobs.

Are you also going to rally support for the employers providing $15+ hour jobs to be forced to pay more?
Is that the next move?
Government regulation of what PRIVATE companies pay at all pay levels?
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Old 04-27-2016, 11:42 AM
 
3,792 posts, read 2,366,837 times
Reputation: 768
Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post
...

So, we can expect employer behaviour to change. They will substitute. What type of employee benefits? The skilled employee who sees an increase in demand. What type of employee is hurt? The unskilled traditional MW employee who sees a drop in demand.
I did a job search in a 1% unemployment labor market. I filled out one application at where I wanted to work, I got the job. There were 50 other people that got the job as well but the got other jobs as they weren't willing to sit in line for 3 weeks for the start date. In that labor market you could've doubled the minimum wage and everyone still would've been put to work.


The FED can loan out enough money to put those unskilled workers back to work if there is room for more debt in the system.
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