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That's never been brought up in this thread, what is your point in interjecting some 'theory' that no one here ever suggested?
This is not my idea. Jerthebar wants to have employees paid according to the profits the business makes: "profits should be a much better determiner of compensation than skill."
This is not my idea. Jerthebar wants to have employees paid according to the profits the business makes: "profits should be a much better determiner of compensation than skill."
I think it might be time to just do away with the minimum wage . Allow businesses to decide what they are willing and able to pay for labor and then let employees decide what they are willing to work for . Even though minimum wage is $10 in LA some people aren't even worth that much , for example if they are a liability to the company . On the other someone without a college degree might be a hard worker and they might get started out at $10 but the owner will elevate them with time to more responsibility and pay them better
It happens all the time , but if that employee now won't be able to get their foot in the door that's a big issue .
People need to think more long term versus short term .
Many businesses have already said if they have to pay $15 they are going to look for employees that already have work experience and skills . Which will eliminate opportunity .
You can force employers to pay $15 min wage , but you can't force them to hire people without work experience or skills at $15
Under the table pay will most definitely rise .
I think it might be time to just do away with the minimum wage . Allow businesses to decide what they are willing and able to pay for labor and then let employees decide what they are willing to work for .
I'll amend your proposition eliminate the minimum wage laws to include strengthening labor union laws.
It's an interesting debate as to how a rise in minimum wage will effect the economy. Here in the Pacific NW, it will hurt. Seattle raised the minimum wage and immediately landlords across the board drove up rent as a direct result. And for those who were making already $15-18/hr it hurt them deeply. At Pike market in Seattle several small businesses eliminated employees (I have spoken with 3 that laid off all workers). Here in Portland rents will drive up and the few small business people I have spoken to will be selling, closing or letting most employees go. As an example, there is a group of local Baskin & Robbins owners. Nearly 100% are now trying to sell their shops. The lady I know who owns 3 will be closing 2 outright (letting 9 employees go) and will be an owner/operator of the other with 2 employees only.
I also wonder as brick & mortar stores raise prices to cover the raise in minimum wage how they will be able to compete with the Amazons of the world.
What they should have done when they started the minimum wage was to attach a 2% yearly increase so we don't have to take these giant steps every 20 years or so.
The true problem that no one wants to tackle is housing costs.
The University of Washington economics department was commissioned by the city of Seattle to study the minimum wage increase's effects. The Minimum Wage Study | Evans School of Public Policy and Governance It's too early to come to any conclusions, which they state will not be clear until they get good data after the final increase in 2020 - so probably 2021-22.
The wage in Seattle has only increased this year to $13 / 12.50 (if medical benefits are paid) for large employers and $12.00 / 10.50 (if medical benefits are paid) for small employers. Minimum Wage - LaborStandards | seattle.gov So if those Pike Place market employers cut workers, it's probably because of their sales and not the wage... they're just using it as an excuse. Rents in Seattle and Portland have skyrocketed for about 3 years without any minimum wage increase until now, which does not take effect fully until 2020/22.
I think it might be time to just do away with the minimum wage . Allow businesses to decide what they are willing and able to pay for labor and then let employees decide what they are willing to work for .
This is absolute rubbish. History has shown if businesses have unchecked power, some have abused it.
Monopolies, price fixings, child labor, 80 hour work weeks with no overtime, 120 hour work weeks... heck, 178 hour work weeks (they expect your family to chip in )... there's a reason we have these laws.
I would be terrified if the government gets unchecked power. (see the case where the FBI insisted that backdoors be installed into all iPhones in the after math of the San Bernardino shootings). Luckily, we have a piece of paper called the Constitution which we all have to follow, and people who uphold it. I'd be even more terrified if businesses get such high levels of power.
While we're at it, let's also let minors smoke, drive, drink alcohol, work. Also, eliminate laws on homicides. After all, if we can let the market decide, why not let human nature show that we're capable of "policing ourselves"?
[quote=jm1982;44140153]Even though minimum wage is $10 in LA some people aren't even worth that much , for example if they are a liability to the company . On the other someone without a college degree might be a hard worker and they might get started out at $10 but the owner will elevate them with time to more responsibility and pay them better
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm1982
It happens all the time , but if that employee now won't be able to get their foot in the door that's a big issue .
You're assuming that everyone follows the formula of "get foot in door of MW job for 0.5 years to 2 years. College/vocational learning. No more need for MW job, as the next generation will now take those jobs, and use those to springboard their way to the middle class". Look around... there are PLENTY of people stuck in MW... many through no fault of their own (and yes, some because of their own fault too). Money is where it counts. For many of us who end up doing professional work (lawyer, doctor, computer programmer, scientist, office jobs, logistics, etc.)... there's a decent chance it won't matter. I've had a couple of folks who said they hired for entry level positions. Working at McDonalds or Panera Bread for a summer to a few years didn't really factor in their qualifications. They looked at their school work, grades, internships, and asked them technical questions to gauge how their thought process worked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm1982
People need to think more long term versus short term .
Many businesses have already said if they have to pay $15 they are going to look for employees that already have work experience and skills . Which will eliminate opportunity .
In the free market, those employees with skills and experience will be looking for much better jobs than $15/hr, so they'll have to settle for the rest.
Unions are only going to work up to a certain degree. They make Mgmt pay a certain hourly scale under a Union contract.
Workers are protected to a certain degree while I personally did work as a member of a Union but a situation came about where my store Mgr asked me who paid my wages.....Union or the Company (store). There has to be a Priority.
Every business operation has an employee expense when they un lock the front doors......customers or not which can effect the bottom line at the end of the month or 13 week quarter.
People forget that the work they perform is what determines the pay received at the end of the week.
Some are not even worth the MIN wage based upon their work ethics.
Decades ago when in business had a part time person that always had his left or right hand in his pants pocket (nothing funny) The job entailed using both hands.
I told him that I could have hired a handicapped person with only one arm instead of him based upon his work output.....he was quickly gone.
Okay, some will say I'm a bad person but they have never owned a business to fully understand the operation, overhead expenses, licenses/taxes etc to be paid and how much profit for the business at the end of the day.
Sure, a Retail business many have customers flocking in and mdse going out the door and still only 1.5-2 % Net profit.
Being in the Inventory trade alone for 20 yrs (15 as a owner) I dealt with owners and their operations.
The true problem that no one wants to tackle is housing costs.
The University of Washington economics department was commissioned by the city of Seattle to study the minimum wage increase's effects. The Minimum Wage Study | Evans School of Public Policy and Governance It's too early to come to any conclusions, which they state will not be clear until they get good data after the final increase in 2020 - so probably 2021-22.
The wage in Seattle has only increased this year to $13 / 12.50 (if medical benefits are paid) for large employers and $12.00 / 10.50 (if medical benefits are paid) for small employers. Minimum Wage - LaborStandards | seattle.gov So if those Pike Place market employers cut workers, it's probably because of their sales and not the wage... they're just using it as an excuse. Rents in Seattle and Portland have skyrocketed for about 3 years without any minimum wage increase until now, which does not take effect fully until 2020/22.
I mostly agree with you, but tackle housing costs how? Cap what houses can sell for and what landlords can charge for rent? In most high rent areas there is more pent up demand for housing than there are housing starts. What do you suggest, require developers to charge below market rate for rent? It's a real dilemma and I don't see a fix for it, and it's not just minimum wage workers who are becoming increasingly unwilling to commute two hours to work, San Francisco is already having a crisis in finding teachers and lower paid municipal employees, these Cities will be far less livable if the resident's can't hire housekeepers and there aren't enough teachers to educate their kids.
if you remove the incentive to run a business , people will just put their money in the stock market , or another investment vehicle like real estate . Not good for employees
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)... there's a reason we have these laws.
