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Old 04-19-2016, 09:47 AM
 
17,388 posts, read 11,913,887 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
The average beneficiary receives 2-3x in benefits compared to what they put in. This roughly a $500K gift per elderly couple. That is entitlement with meat!
No, that's insurance. Entitlement is not "putting in" and still getting the money.

What's the alternative? Put in money and NOT get it out? And as an fyi, if the government wasn't wasting so much money (because they are collecting record taxes right now), they'd have plenty of money to fund Medicare. But instead they "gift" money to green corporations that go bankrupt, bailout unions, and fund useless studies.
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Old 04-19-2016, 09:49 AM
 
18,750 posts, read 8,370,867 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
Nope. Social Security is 30% underfunded. You have to apply inflation math to the employer and employee contributions. The median Social Security recipient is about 40% short on their inflation-adjusted lifetime employer & employee contributions. That's because the benefits are progressive. I've been high income my whole career. I'd have to live into my 90's to break even.

If we raised Social Security funding by 30% today by some mix of payroll tax hike, lifting the income cap, and going after non-wage income the way we did with Medicare, the program rolls on forever cash flow neutral.
I was referring to Medicare.
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Old 04-19-2016, 09:53 AM
 
18,750 posts, read 8,370,867 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ringwise View Post
No, that's insurance. Entitlement is not "putting in" and still getting the money.

What's the alternative? Put in money and NOT get it out? And as an fyi, if the government wasn't wasting so much money (because they are collecting record taxes right now), they'd have plenty of money to fund Medicare. But instead they "gift" money to green corporations that go bankrupt, bailout unions, and fund useless studies.
Medicare is an entitlement as it is guaranteed at age 65. And you typically receive much more in benefits than you pay in. It is also insurance, bought at huge bargain!
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Old 04-19-2016, 10:13 AM
 
Location: Paranoid State
13,044 posts, read 13,804,338 times
Reputation: 15837
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
I don't mean line item.

I mean paying too much for a service, mysteriously misplacing 5 million bucks here and there, ridiculous lifelong pensions for govt employees/politicians, limos, parties, private vehicles, blah blah blah.
Efficiency is never a priority when it comes to spending someone else's money.

I think that if we were responsible, we could actually have all the programs and benefits we do have for a lower cost.
Some of the reason for paying too much can be found in the federal procurement rules themselves.

Here is an example -- we've all heard of the $750 coffee pot and the $125 common screwdriver. The reason the vendors charge this much is because the Federal Government's procurement rules, in some cases, require the vendor to keep in inventory ALL parts and tools needed to repair something.

SOooo.... those aging B-52s (the Stratofortress) have coffee pots as part part of their equipment -- makes sense given the original mission to keep some B-52s airborne always. So, some avionics sub-sub-subcontractor must keep coffee pots in inventory, where their sole customer for that coffee pot is the US Air Force B-52 Program. There are only 94 B-52s in active service, although there were a total of 744 made.

So that sub-sub-subcontractor had to determine failure rates on coffee pots and apply statistical analysis to forecast how many coffee pots they would need for the duration of the program, and put them in inventory in a dusty warehouse somewhere that looks like the end scene of Raiders of the Lost Ark.

Ditto for a common flat or Phillips screwdriver.

The rule itself makes sense, as sometimes there are specialty tools required, and of course it is difficult to put a rule in place that reflects common sense such as the sub-sub-subcontractor doesn't need to keep a common Phillips screwdriver in inventory because in the real world there is no need for that.

So, the way the government pays for inventory at subcontractors includes various approved cost accounting procedures. And in the real world, almost no one buys a common Phillips screwdriver for $125 even in the military, but the vendor must keep them in inventory for decades on end.
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Old 04-19-2016, 10:33 AM
 
4,344 posts, read 2,771,661 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
This is just making stuff up. In Europe, the tax burden on the middle class ($50K household income) is closer to 50% and 60% in the Nordic countries. The US does not have a VAT. It has a very low effective Federal income tax rate at that income level. Most states don't hit $50K very hard with state income taxes. State sales taxes are chump change compared to VAT/GST elsewhere in the world. The biggest tax paid at $50K is payroll taxes and the employer pays half of those.
It's referring to total tax receipts: federal, state local. It compares those to expenditures on food, clothing and shelter. There's no magic going on here or "this high there but that is low here."

The Nordic Countries are three countries. France makes 4. That leaves a lot that are less.
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Old 04-19-2016, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Paranoid State
13,044 posts, read 13,804,338 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
The average beneficiary receives 2-3x in benefits compared to what they put in. This roughly a $500K gift per elderly couple. That is entitlement with meat!
Except that for most, it is means-tested away.

Social Security and Medicare are already means tested.

First, the program’s benefit formula favors lower-wage workers. Benefit amounts are based on the lifetime earnings history. The first dollars of a worker’s wages are replaced at a 90 percent rate. Earnings in a second bracket (mechanically like an income-tax-rate bracket) are replaced at a 32 percent rate. And any earnings above that level are replaced at only a 15 percent rate. Thus, although higher-wage workers receive more dollars in absolute terms, they receive less back in Social Security benefits per dollar of tax paid over their lifetimes. At the extremes, the difference in the implicit rate of return on those contributions is enormous.

The second key program feature is that a fraction of Social Security benefits can be subject to income taxation, on a progressive basis – and then the income tax that applies to those included benefits itself is progressive. Once a beneficiary’s total income (including half of Social Security benefits) exceeds $25,000 ($32,000 for a married couple), the first dollar of benefits begins to be taxable, up to inclusion of one-half of benefits. And once income (including half of Social Security benefits) exceeds $34,000 ($44,000 for a married couple) the portion of benefits included in taxable income begins to rise further, up to a maximum inclusion of 85 percent of benefits. This provision is designed to have no effect on the extremely-low-income elderly, while gradually increasing its impact as total incomes rise.

The Government giveth, and the Government taketh-away.
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Old 04-19-2016, 11:22 AM
 
18,750 posts, read 8,370,867 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post
Except that for most, it is means-tested away.
Most Medicare beneficiaries don't have the means, so most get more benefits than they put in. Previously roughly 3X, now moving closer to 2X.

https://www.google.com/#q=medicare+payout+vs+pay+in
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Old 04-19-2016, 11:54 AM
 
18,051 posts, read 25,118,426 times
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All I want is for everybody to be informed how much money we pay in taxes to fund military
that's it.... I bet people will quickly change their mind about going around the World "freeing countries"
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Old 04-19-2016, 12:15 PM
 
Location: moved
13,583 posts, read 9,612,002 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post
Some of the reason for paying too much can be found in the federal procurement rules themselves.

...Ditto for a common flat or Phillips screwdriver.

The rule itself makes sense, as sometimes there are specialty tools required, and of course it is difficult to put a rule in place that reflects common sense such as the sub-sub-subcontractor doesn't need to keep a common Phillips screwdriver in inventory because in the real world there is no need for that.

So, the way the government pays for inventory at subcontractors includes various approved cost accounting procedures. And in the real world, almost no one buys a common Phillips screwdriver for $125 even in the military, but the vendor must keep them in inventory for decades on end.
It gets worse. That Phillips screwdriver is kept in a "shadowed" tool-box, with inventory card and accountability for its lock. It must be checked and signed daily. Somebody is responsible for that checking, and in turn is accountable for external inspectors – who might be uniformed military servicemen, or contractors, or civil-service employees. The inspectors are evaluated based, in large measure, on how many violations they find. So the organization managing the tool-box must hire more people responsible for housekeeping and compliance. Recognizing all of this, a Task Force is appointed to streamline the process – holding meetings, making recommendations and so forth. Whenever a new commanding officer is appointed to the oversight group, he/she revamps the process, appointing new people and tasking them to document their findings in detail. This is often done in parallel, with an in-house government team and a contractor-team, the latter hired in a competitive process, for which competition is overseen by Contracting and Finance. And then the Inspector General drops in from time to time, making sure that nothing gets embezzled, and that Equal Opportunity is observed in decisions of hiring and of awarding contracts.

Stupid, isn't it?

But it also generates jobs – good, white-collar secure jobs, which can't be done by foreign nationals and which can't be off-shored. Note that most of those jobs are actually in the private sector.
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Old 04-19-2016, 02:11 PM
 
Location: Arizona
3,148 posts, read 2,711,076 times
Reputation: 6060
9.5% sales tax in my state, licensing fees to renew my tabs, tax on peanut m&m's (at least in california) tax on cigarettes and liquor, excise tax on a new set of tires.

They've got us by the short hairs.
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