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It was luck that temp position allowed you to get your foot in the door and ingratiate yourself with the decision-maker. Most places I've worked, temps are rarely hired full-time. Often they are looked down upon.
I'm sad to say it but I know I've seen situations where there are equivalent candidates and the better-looking, more charismatic one gets the nod. These are public-facing jobs so I suppose charisma does matter, but there's an unfairness to it; some people are just not as good looking. Unfortunately I myself was a beneficiary of that. Or I guess fortunate. I suppose it was work.... I worked on my fitness, chose good clothes, had even taken acting & improv classes because I knew presentation skill & ability to hold a room's attention was something I needed. Like I said, I worked to put myself into position but there was a significant luck factor beyond my control.
I was a temp worker many years ago and every company they placed me in, offered to hire me full-time. I refused because I was going to school. I used to tell my husband that he and I would never be out of jobs in certain places because of the lack of work ethic.
This is BY FAR the best response in this thread. Now, I'm more of a moderate and I believe in capitalism, this poster doesn't sound that happy about capitalism but that's irrelevant to the FACTS that they presented which are completely true.
It's never been about working hard in America, it's always been about working smart. It's always been putting your resources to WORK in the most productive use, to create the best returns in an efficient amount of time.
Working smart is all about taking the resources that you have currently (time, energy, knowledge, connections, and capital) and investing them to let's say double your assets/net worth within 18 months. Then investing again to double them again within 12 months. Then investing again to double them again within 24 months. Then investing again to double them within another 24 months. And on and on.
Not saying you will not "sweat" while working smart, but the people who focus on working smart while also focusing on not falling into the poverty traps on the way up (like not having kids before you can afford them) are more likely to climb to the middle class and even onto the higher class.
You quoted a thread that basically said that people get rich because they exploit poor people as slave labor. I disagree with that. You then wrote something that I agree with 100%. ....other than the doubling your assets in 24 months part which simply doesn't happen other than for outlier entrepreneurs in their very best years. Most people got wealthy on their 5% to 10% after-inflation return which can't possibly double every 24 months.
The United States is a capitalist country. Everyone has constitutionally protected property rights. Everyone has constitutionally protected rights to make their own economic decisions. The people who "work smart" save and invest the results of their work to create wealth. That wealth compounds. They become rich. It's the American way.
I've spent my 35 year career in corporate high tech. I've always avoided the executive track that has the big money. I look at my friends who went that path. They're working 24x7. They live on airplanes. They're under enormous stress. I consciously picked an individual contributor path. I do just fine but I get compensated less. I have zero resentment. All that job stress would have killed me by now. By any rational definition, I'm wealthy. I'm not 1%er wealthy but I could stop working today and be just fine for the rest of my life. I aspire to more disposable income when I retire so I'm planning to work for another 7 1/2 years. I'm on the "save & invest" wealthy people track rather than the "spend and blame the rigged system because I'm not rich" poor people track.
That's a term that gets misunderstood and misused too often. I'll give my take on what that means, FWIW.
Hard Work means doing things that no one else wants to do, such as working holidays or late night shifts. It means showing up to work when you're sick, or just don't feel like it. It can mean working on commission rather than being paid for every hour you're clocked in.
It can mean forgoing a desk job to swing a hammer on a roofing crew so that you can actually be in demand, at least until you have the groundwork in place to wear a white shirt to work. It means doing whatever it takes to pursue a goal, even with no guarantee that you'll even come close.
It can mean putting everything you own on the line to be self employed, a high percentage of millionaires are self employed.
It means learning to invest in the stock market or real estate, even when those investments are tanking.
Hard Work can be defined as sacrifice and believing in yourself when no one else does.
This is all well and good.....but we don't hear about the many "failures". What we do hear about are failed businesses. Are we to assume that it was the BUSINESS that failed and that the owners just got back on their feet and EVENTUALLY figured out a business that earned them millions? Aren't SOME business owners who "just never gave up" left destitute or bankrupt? How do we classify them? Noble failures? Failures just as bad as the rest of us who were too "lazy" to try or didn't have the good social connections to get the funding to try?
Let's get REAL. We hear about a TINY part of "reality" and then try to shove everyone into that tiny box...if you don't fit...you're barely fit to live, much less get the sympathy of anyone who "made it". We have such narrow definitions and so little empathy and understanding. Is it that our own successes are so insecure we can't stand to have it pointed out how easily we might have failed?
Millionaires chalk success up to hard work and family values
by Jackie Wattles @jackiewattles May 24, 2016: 6:10 PM ET
How to be a millionaire. Most high net worth Americans say they worked their way up from a lower class.
That's according to a report released by U.S. Trust on Monday, based on a survey that asked 684 adults in the U.S. with $3 million or more of "investible assets" hundreds of questions.
About 77% of those surveyed said they grew up in the middle class or lower, including 19% who say they were poor. And they credit their success to three somewhat surprising factors: Hard work, ambition and family upbringing. Respondents even went so far as to say that these influences were much more important than "connections" or "innate talent."
"The points seem to be so traditional in nature," said Chris Heilmann, the chief fiduciary executive at U.S. Trust, Bank of America's private wealth management firm. "It's [about] deeply held family values rather than an inheritance or existing wealth,"
The survey was also a shout-out to strict parents. About 80% of respondents said their parents were firm disciplinarians. They also named "academic achievement," "financial discipline" and "work participation" as the family values that were most emphasized in their homes.
"It indicates the American Dream seems to be alive and well," Heilmann said.
Considering that some people might doubt that, Heilmann said that the results were "refreshing, encouraging and a bit surprising."
CNNMoney (New York) First published May 23, 2016: 7:42 PM ET
You see, I don't want someone to TELL me they grew up "poor"...I want them to tell me what their household income was in what year, and then I"LL tell them what SES class they were actually in. Or tell me the job the parent did at what company and I'LL do the research to track down their salary. I want FACTS, not REMINISCING. How many glibly said "I grew up poor!" because it was a lot less than what they have now? And based on a child's understanding of money?
We all have heard that even people making $250k think they are "middle class" because they sure as heck don't feel like they are "rich" yet! That's not reality....
This is all well and good.....but we don't hear about the many "failures". What we do hear about are failed businesses. Are we to assume that it was the BUSINESS that failed and that the owners just got back on their feet and EVENTUALLY figured out a business that earned them millions? Aren't SOME business owners who "just never gave up" left destitute or bankrupt? How do we classify them? Noble failures? Failures just as bad as the rest of us who were too "lazy" to try or didn't have the good social connections to get the funding to try?
Let's get REAL. We hear about a TINY part of "reality" and then try to shove everyone into that tiny box...if you don't fit...you're barely fit to live, much less get the sympathy of anyone who "made it". We have such narrow definitions and so little empathy and understanding. Is it that our own successes are so insecure we can't stand to have it pointed out how easily we might have failed?
Yes, failures. My BIL is one of those. He considers himself a genius in business, and decided to buy in to a franchise business. He was horrible at it, and repeated attempts by the parent company to educate him (he refused, and called them idiots because he knew more than they did) went ignored. He was maxed out on his company credit to buy product ($50k), and 3 times that in debt. After 5 years the company forced him to sell the franchise, and he lost everything. He's bitter and resentful, and blames the company for giving him a poor location (which is the one HE chose, because he was too impatient for a better one to open up). He was in love with the idea of being a business owner, but he's lazy, disorganized, arrogant, and weak. It was evident in the job he had before he bought the franchise, and is still there at his current job.
Not everyone succeeds, because not everybody starts a business with the right skills, smarts and motivation to succeed.
Yes, failures. My BIL is one of those. He considers himself a genius in business, and decided to buy in to a franchise business. He was horrible at it, and repeated attempts by the parent company to educate him (he refused, and called them idiots because he knew more than they did) went ignored. He was maxed out on his company credit to buy product ($50k), and 3 times that in debt. After 5 years the company forced him to sell the franchise, and he lost everything. He's bitter and resentful, and blames the company for giving him a poor location (which is the one HE chose, because he was too impatient for a better one to open up). He was in love with the idea of being a business owner, but he's lazy, disorganized, arrogant, and weak. It was evident in the job he had before he bought the franchise, and is still there at his current job.
Not everyone succeeds, because not everybody starts a business with the right skills, smarts and motivation to succeed.
Some people have the 'knack'. Other people do not.
I did 20 years in the US Navy as an enlisted sailor. Most enlisted servicemembers tend to live paycheck-to-paycheck.
My Dw and I took courses on budgeting and on taxes. We both became certified in those areas. So we were able to focus a lot of our money on investments and we stopped paying income taxes. Every enlisted servicemember is capable of doing the same things, but few do.
We collected one apartment building at each duty station. Something that every servicemember could do, but very few actually do.
I retired from the Navy at 42 years old, with a Net Worth of nearly $1Million. What I did were things that every enlisted man can do.
I know a lot of fellow military retirees. every one of them I know, all had to get a second career. Why? they get the same pension I get, right? But they have debt. They have living expenses that exceed their pensions. Very few of them have any investments.
Millionaires chalk success up to hard work and family values
About 77% of those surveyed said they grew up in the middle class or lower, including 19% who say they were poor. And they credit their success to three somewhat surprising factors: Hard work, ambition and family upbringing. Respondents even went so far as to say that these influences were much more important than "connections" or "innate talent."
Quote:
Originally Posted by reneeh63
You see, I don't want someone to TELL me they grew up "poor"...I want them to tell me what their household income was in what year, and then I"LL tell them what SES class they were actually in. Or tell me the job the parent did at what company and I'LL do the research to track down their salary. I want FACTS, not REMINISCING. How many glibly said "I grew up poor!" because it was a lot less than what they have now? And based on a child's understanding of money?
We all have heard that even people making $250k think they are "middle class" because they sure as heck don't feel like they are "rich" yet! That's not reality....
Firstly if you look at the study 77 % were middle class and of that 19 % were poor. So nearly a quarter of the $3+ million are from rich backgrounds, maybe a quarter are from poor and the rest 50 % are from middle class.
You are making the same mistake as many others. Income does not mean wealth. Take your example. Someone earning $250K and having $150-175K after taxes and spends it all on luxury cars, big mansion, eating out, twice a year exotic vacations will live a righ lifestyle but end up with no savings and will not make it to this study of having savings of $3+M. I know many physicians and lawyers who live this lifestyle. You look at their Beemers and Mercedes and think they are rich, but they are not wealthy.
On the other hand the same person who gets the same $150-175K after taxes and lives on $80-100K and invests the rest will have a solid middle class lifestyle, probably upper middle class. He will iive in a decent house, have 2 standard Accords or Camrys and take one good vacation per year and eat out rarely. But the $50-75K invested each year will easily lead to $3M + retirement savings.
It is how you live your life and spend your money makes your lifestyle and savings. So just because they live a middle class lifestyle and save does not make another person classify them as rich, since if they lived as per what you consider a $250K person should live like they will never end up rich / wealthy at retirement.
This is all well and good.....but we don't hear about the many "failures". What we do hear about are failed businesses. Are we to assume that it was the BUSINESS that failed and that the owners just got back on their feet and EVENTUALLY figured out a business that earned them millions? Aren't SOME business owners who "just never gave up" left destitute or bankrupt? How do we classify them? Noble failures? Failures just as bad as the rest of us who were too "lazy" to try or didn't have the good social connections to get the funding to try?
Let's get REAL. We hear about a TINY part of "reality" and then try to shove everyone into that tiny box...if you don't fit...you're barely fit to live, much less get the sympathy of anyone who "made it". We have such narrow definitions and so little empathy and understanding. Is it that our own successes are so insecure we can't stand to have it pointed out how easily we might have failed?
If you fail so hard that you end up destitute or bankrupt, you didn't manage your risk well, and most likely have some growing up to do.
You quoted a thread that basically said that people get rich because they exploit poor people as slave labor. I disagree with that. You then wrote something that I agree with 100%. ....other than the doubling your assets in 24 months part which simply doesn't happen other than for outlier entrepreneurs in their very best years. Most people got wealthy on their 5% to 10% after-inflation return which can't possibly double every 24 months.
The United States is a capitalist country. Everyone has constitutionally protected property rights. Everyone has constitutionally protected rights to make their own economic decisions. The people who "work smart" save and invest the results of their work to create wealth. That wealth compounds. They become rich. It's the American way.
I've spent my 35 year career in corporate high tech. I've always avoided the executive track that has the big money. I look at my friends who went that path. They're working 24x7. They live on airplanes. They're under enormous stress. I consciously picked an individual contributor path. I do just fine but I get compensated less. I have zero resentment. All that job stress would have killed me by now. By any rational definition, I'm wealthy. I'm not 1%er wealthy but I could stop working today and be just fine for the rest of my life. I aspire to more disposable income when I retire so I'm planning to work for another 7 1/2 years. I'm on the "save & invest" wealthy people track rather than the "spend and blame the rigged system because I'm not rich" poor people track.
I dispute that. Government is the source of property rights and government can prevent property owners from selling you property you can afford, and then shrug because you own no property for government to 'protect'. I certainly do not have any right to purchase a tiny piece of land where I live and put a tiny house on it. It's no accident that the propertyless were excluded from participating in the Framing, and have weak property rights, if any.
You see, I don't want someone to TELL me they grew up "poor"...I want them to tell me what their household income was in what year, and then I"LL tell them what SES class they were actually in. Or tell me the job the parent did at what company and I'LL do the research to track down their salary. I want FACTS, not REMINISCING. How many glibly said "I grew up poor!" because it was a lot less than what they have now? And based on a child's understanding of money?
We all have heard that even people making $250k think they are "middle class" because they sure as heck don't feel like they are "rich" yet! That's not reality....
How do you classify individuals who are 'class inconsistent' e.g. uneducated high income (Clampetts?) or poor college graduate?
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