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What annoys me much more about sports are the subsidies. Not only do taxpayers never see ROI from the stadiums, etc. but we subsidize the entire player development and training system. Sports are such an integral part of our secondary and higher education systems.
You know, this is a ridiculous argument.
First, the taxpayers vote for the stadium.
Second, the facilities typically get used for more than just the games. Events, concerts, and the whatnot.
Third, how would you feel if a city spent taxpayer money for, say, a symphony hall or an art museum? Hey, I'm a big proponent of the arts. I've sat on arts organization boards and promoted arts organizations in ways large and small. And not only do arts organizations get to use public facilities at a brother-in-law rate, but they typically enjoy considerable city, state, and federal subsidies (Let's use the codeword grants) for what they do. A symphony conductor certainly doesn't get paid the way an NFL linebacker does, but he does get paid well. So if you're going to decry public support for professional sports but applaud public support for professional artists, then you are simply exercising your personal prejudices rather than looking out for the commonweal.
Fourth, how do you even calculate ROI in a situation like this? For every economist you trot out who denies the benefits, I can find experts who claim the benefits are real and tangible. I mean, ask anyone in places such as Indianapolis, Nashville, or Jacksonville how they benefit from the visibility of an NFL team entering their markets and they'll have a lot to say.
I have business acquaintance with a HOF Quarterback (Trust me, you'd know the name. He's an icon of the game) who retired from football and wound up being in the wealth management business for athletes. We're not huge friends, but I've helped him and his company out from time to time. Plus I've been on a couple of boards of organizations that he's been involved with.
So in talking to him, he mentioned what happens in the business:
1) A kid, either straight out of college or, worse, straight out of high school, has hundreds of thousands of dollars dumped in his lap. Sometimes it's millions.
2) A lot of times, that kid comes from a household that was blue collar, working class, or even more straitened. So there's literally no one in the family to give him advice on how to manage money, and when to engage an attorney or an accountant or an investment advisor.
3) Likewise, these guys equate wealth with all the material trappings, such as the Testarossa or the huge house.
4) That kid coming from that same background has friends and family come out of the woodwork. I mean, if you're a rich NFL player and your brother is barely scraping by or is trying to start a business, it gets really hard to tell him 'No.'
5) These are kids who also believe that they are special. Like being a neurosurgeon or a fighter pilot, you really have to have that kind of confidence to go out and perform on the level they do. So they can't imagine that they're ever going to get into this kind of trouble.
6) So between the conspicuous consumption and the sharks that just cruise around in those circles, they are just big, vulnerable targets.
That's why so many go under when the big salaries dry up.
I was going to guess Scott Brunner, but he was not HOF. I am a retired Div 1 Baseball Coach who was also a number 3 pick in the MLB draft. I am all for what ever a guy can get but sometimes when I look at what at the signing bonus of a #3 pick today versus back in the 70's I cringe. I know a lot of former pro's that often cringe at todays salary's. I am thankful though that I chose the college route out of HS, which enabled me to coach college ( it is an unwritten rule to coach D1 baseball you had to play D1) and earn considerably more then Pro Minor League managers.
I was going to guess Scott Brunner, but he was not HOF. I am a retired Div 1 Baseball Coach who was also a number 3 pick in the MLB draft. I am all for what ever a guy can get but sometimes when I look at what at the signing bonus of a #3 pick today versus back in the 70's I cringe. I know a lot of former pro's that often cringe at todays salary's. I am thankful though that I chose the college route out of HS, which enabled me to coach college ( it is an unwritten rule to coach D1 baseball you had to play D1) and earn considerably more then Pro Minor League managers.
I totally get your point. The truth of the matter is that the money has just come sluicing in over the past twenty-five or thirty years. ESPN had that effect. Add to that the endorsement-driven advertising of companies such as Nike and the pot gets even bigger.
So, in truth, the athlete is getting a bigger slice of the money pie. Which, given how they are what people come to see, seems fair to me. And given their relatively -- excuse the term -- shelf life, getting paid a lot for a short period of time doesn't seem inequitable to me.
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
44,585 posts, read 81,186,228 times
Reputation: 57818
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223
You know, this is a ridiculous argument.
First, the taxpayers vote for the stadium.
Second, the facilities typically get used for more than just the games. Events, concerts, and the whatnot.
Third, how would you feel if a city spent taxpayer money for, say, a symphony hall or an art museum? Hey, I'm a big proponent of the arts. I've sat on arts organization boards and promoted arts organizations in ways large and small. And not only do arts organizations get to use public facilities at a brother-in-law rate, but they typically enjoy considerable city, state, and federal subsidies (Let's use the codeword grants) for what they do. A symphony conductor certainly doesn't get paid the way an NFL linebacker does, but he does get paid well. So if you're going to decry public support for professional sports but applaud public support for professional artists, then you are simply exercising your personal prejudices rather than looking out for the commonweal.
Fourth, how do you even calculate ROI in a situation like this? For every economist you trot out who denies the benefits, I can find experts who claim the benefits are real and tangible. I mean, ask anyone in places such as Indianapolis, Nashville, or Jacksonville how they benefit from the visibility of an NFL team entering their markets and they'll have a lot to say.
Actually, not always. Here the Mariners stadium was voted down by the taxpayers, however the state legislature then passed a tax to pay for it.
Lebron James is compared commensurate with what value he brings to the team in terms of skill, and also want he brings in terms of attention, increases in attendance and merchandise sales, etc.
Lebron is actually worth far more than he is allowed to make in the NBA market. A team would easily pay $100 million a year to have Lebron if they had to.
Paid $2.00 for a lower reserved seat behind home plate in Baltimore to see the likes of Ted Williams and Mickey Mantle; and $7.50 (outrageous we thought back then) for a 40-yard-line seat to see Johnny Unitas, who incidentally, along with wife #1, used to sing ridiculous TV jingles for Mary Sue chocolate eggs in order to supplement his less than $10K salary circa 1956-7. (Man, I wish they'd have a YouTube of that.)
What you guys have to pay today for a ticket, mdse., hot dog, cup of beer .... wow! ... just wow! Yeah, your salaries are much better today, but I suspect that the % of it that you pay for your sports fix is much higher than then.
You know, I recall an All-Star game on the tube in which the NL outfield was Frank Robinson, Willie Mays, and Hank Aaron. Wonder what that trio in their prime today would be paid.
Honestly, all sports players are over paid.. Millions just to play a 2 hour game or less.. Just luck of the straw or something.. I vote not to watch as i dont want to keep feeding them. Kids today see them as role models and think they can be super stars one day. Not going to give there hopes up, but they need a fall back plan. How many sports players have a fall back plan they can do if they get injured. Not many.. If you take away their huge salary, see how many play the game for what it is, than just show up and get paid. Im sure back in the day, you didnt get paid well unless you win games. Now they get paid no matter what, main reason why you see games that are dull and boring.
I guess you forgot about playing and practicing for thousands of hours over 15-20 years before they make it to the big leagues?
You do realize that despite huge headlines most NFL players never even get to the end of their contracts and end up with a short career.
So a guy gets a 10 million dollar deal over 5 years. Plays 3, gets 6 million. Pays 40% in taxes, 10% to his agent/lawyers etc. He keeps 3 million but doesn't have a job after 3 years. Lets say he lives 30 years on that 3 million, that is 100K a year......of course we forgot about baller spending, baby mamas, entourage costs, bad investments, buying mom a mansion and a Mercedes.....whew that 3 million didn't last long!
Espn feature on broke athletes....its long but it will blow your mind!
Johnny Unitas, who incidentally, along with wife #1, used to sing ridiculous TV jingles for Mary Sue chocolate eggs in order to supplement his less than $10K salary circa 1956-7. (Man, I wish they'd have a YouTube of that.)
Lyrics:
Mary Sue Easter eggs
They're the best Easter eggs
Honey, your money can buy
They're rich and nutritious
And oh so delicious
So give Mary Sue candy a try
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
44,585 posts, read 81,186,228 times
Reputation: 57818
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvert Hall '62
Guess I was spoiled as a sports fan.
Paid $2.00 for a lower reserved seat behind home plate in Baltimore to see the likes of Ted Williams and Mickey Mantle; and $7.50 (outrageous we thought back then) for a 40-yard-line seat to see Johnny Unitas, who incidentally, along with wife #1, used to sing ridiculous TV jingles for Mary Sue chocolate eggs in order to supplement his less than $10K salary circa 1956-7. (Man, I wish they'd have a YouTube of that.)
What you guys have to pay today for a ticket, mdse., hot dog, cup of beer .... wow! ... just wow! Yeah, your salaries are much better today, but I suspect that the % of it that you pay for your sports fix is much higher than then.
You know, I recall an All-Star game on the tube in which the NL outfield was Frank Robinson, Willie Mays, and Hank Aaron. Wonder what that trio in their prime today would be paid.
When dating, my (now for 42 years) wife and I would go to the Oakland As games and sit in the bleachers for $3. This was during their championship days of 1972-74 with the likes of Reggie Jackson and Vida Blue, Rollie Fingers and Catfish Hunter. Just a few weeks ago we went to a Mariner's game and the tickets cost $110, but we were down low behind home plate. We can afford it, but not often, considering the parking at $40 and another $30 each for food and drink. The cheapest seats, at $16 are the equivalent of the old Oakland bleachers. Considering that the best players back then were lucky to get $167,000 Carl Yastrzemski, 1972) and now can get $30 million, the ticket prices have not kept up at all with salaries. The revenue stream that makes the owners rich is coming from other sources, Radio/TV deals and advertising at the stadiums, team merchandise, licensing rights.
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Short and sweet 
