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In Germany most students normally need about 600-800 Euro per month to cover all their expenses. It's normally financed by their parents or by earning own money by doing a part time job.
There is also a federal assistance program (Bafög). It's up to 670 Euro per month. The amount depends on the income of the student and the income of his parents. Half the amount is a grant, the other half is an interest-free loan.
Taking a normal loan from a bank is rather uncommon. I doubt that a bank would give a loan to a student unless he works and has a regular income.
In Germany, the university system is highly selective just like all the rest of their education system. They don't have unprepared high school C students with lousy SAT scores going to some 4th tier state school on borrowed money.
In the United States, 43% of the 25 to 34 age bracket have a Bachelor degree. In Germany, it's 28%.
There would be a revolt in the US if "free college" meant you needed A's and B's in high school and 600 SAT Math & Verbal scores like in Germany. What would all the "everybody gets a prize" unique snowflakes do?
Well in Germany if one does not qualify for college they get put on a vocational track. Nobody graduates there without some kind of marketable trade. Unlike America, where the unskilled end up working at Walmart, and costing the taxpayer money through collection of state benefits.
Countries where the university system is not for profit, and is funded by the taxpayer means they don't want someone who isn't qualified wasting their time and money.
In Germany, the university system is highly selective just like all the rest of their education system. They don't have unprepared high school C students with lousy SAT scores going to some 4th tier state school on borrowed money.
In the United States, 43% of the 25 to 34 age bracket have a Bachelor degree. In Germany, it's 28%.
There would be a revolt in the US if "free college" meant you needed A's and B's in high school and 600 SAT Math & Verbal scores like in Germany. What would all the "everybody gets a prize" unique snowflakes do?
Yep. And this is the only type of "free" college program I'd be in favor of. Make all the snowflakes WORK to get something instead of handing it to them on a silver platter.
Well in Germany if one does not qualify for college they get put on a vocational track. Nobody graduates there without some kind of marketable trade. Unlike America, where the unskilled end up working at Walmart, and costing the taxpayer money through collection of state benefits.
Countries where the university system is not for profit, and is funded by the taxpayer means they don't want someone who isn't qualified wasting their time and money.
Um... last time I was in Germany there were people well over college age checking me out at stores, serving in restaurants and cleaning my hotel room. Not everyone has a marketable skill past these types of service jobs. There will always be those who either cannot or will not further their educations past the required. And that's OK. Someone has to do these types of jobs.
Um... last time I was in Germany there were people well over college age checking me out at stores, serving in restaurants and cleaning my hotel room. Not everyone has a marketable skill past these types of service jobs. There will always be those who either cannot or will not further their educations past the required. And that's OK. Someone has to do these types of jobs.
Of course. Although those jobs tend to actually pay a living wage there.
Of course. Although those jobs tend to actually pay a living wage there.
Probably so, but my point was that not everyone in Germany leaves the educational system with a "marketable" skill. To make "free" college work in the US, we'd need to accept that only the top tier would attend college with the next tier getting vocational training and the bottom tier doing service jobs right out of HS with on the job training. I just doubt this country will accept tracking of students even though we should.
Probably so, but my point was that not everyone in Germany leaves the educational system with a "marketable" skill. To make "free" college work in the US, we'd need to accept that only the top tier would attend college with the next tier getting vocational training and the bottom tier doing service jobs right out of HS with on the job training. I just doubt this country will accept tracking of students even though we should.
Oh, how I could imagine the controversy that would cause...
Oh, how I could imagine the controversy that would cause...
Most of the unprepared college students don't even graduate with a degree 4-6 years later. The 6 year graduation rate in the US is 54%. Therefore, 46% of students who enter college don't graduate with a 4 year degree. That wipes out all of the unprepared students.
However, those 46% of students that didn't graduate college are saddled with student loan debt and no degree to show for it. They are stuggling to pay back that debt on a $10-15 per hour job that they could have got straight out of high school. I agree most of the unprepared students shouldn't be admitted but to only allow the top 5% of students into a university is to the extreme. That is like all 500 fortune companies only hiring candidates that graduated from Ivy Leauge Schools and the rest of college graduates are stocking shelves at Walmart, working in a factory, etc.
How old are you? Did you go to college and when? Do you have any sense of what college costs now?
In the case of my alma mater - a state university in Texas which is as average as they come - right in the middle of the rankings, nothing special - its cost of attendance has gone up 108% in the 9 years since I received my bachelor's degree in 2007. That is something like 5 times the rate of inflation. Public college around the country are similar - there's nothing special about mine.
This is not some fancy schmancy school for rich kids where you get gold plated goodies. It's an average state university. I actually chose it because it had the lowest tuition of the schools I got accepted to in that tier. It had at that time the best combination of academics + cost. Community college or something of that nature would have been cheaper, but you take an opportunity hit doing that. There was also a 4th tier college near my home, but I was capable of better than that. So I made what looked like the most frugal, bang-for-the-buck choice. I turned down the flagships or out of state options for being way too expensive.
Someone doing the cheapest possible route to pay for that university starting in 2016 doing exactly what I did would be in more than double the debt! And I thought my debt - $36,000 for a bachelors double major and master's degree, was bad, but now it looks like a huge bargain! Why!? It has not moved up in the rankings, it is where it was when I attended. From looking at the website of the department I majored in, except for a couple retirements they have replaced, is the same size with the same staff & faculty.
I paid off my student loans in 4.5 years. I don't have kids at this time and may not have them. In fact I did not buy a house until the student loans were paid off, did not get married until after my student loans were paid off, and I am starting to get too old for kids, so may never have them. And that was for what now looks like my relatively moderate amount of student debt. That's just me and millions more are saddled with more debt. There are serious macroeconomic consequences of this. We want the economy to take off but it won't happen if millions of young people cannot buy houses or have families/kids - that is what makes the economy grow!
So affordability for my own kids is not an issue since I have no skin in the game. I could be callous or dismissive toward the young people following in my footsteps and not care. But I do. It does not bring me any pleasure to tell them "I had it tough and you should too" when it's clear that they ACTUALLY have it tougher than me.
It's not a fabricated crisis, it is a real crisis and it continues to rise in cost by 10% every year. It's not "dumb choices," it's not entitlement, it's an actual problem.
I went to A&M. Started in the 10-11 school year and in state tuition was a touch above $8,000 a year. The year after I graduated (so 2015-2016) tuition was over $10,000 a year for instate. $2,000 increase in 5 years. And this is for a school that consistently ranks high on ROI. Largely due to an engineering focus (but lets not get into that debate). Georgia Tech is worse. In just 4 years in state tuition rose by $2,500. Now, it's an excellent engineering school, but it's still a state school.
I'm now in grad school in Pennsylvania. The undergrad tuition is just as much as A&M which I think is ridiculous. IMO, it does not come close to offering what A&M does in several areas. Year to year it's outpacing inflation.
Of course. Although those jobs tend to actually pay a living wage there.
Yes and they pay a living wage because the corporation invests in the training etc. Siemens is a perfect example. They have one of the best entry level training programs for German youngsters looking to pursue a vocation.
The problem with America is the entire educational industry from government loans aka banking, to sports, to textbooks, etc. has been turned into a money making for profit industry/business!!!!! While many of us sit here and complain about the cost of education and the quality..........these same parents are working for all these companies exploiting the madness!!!! Americans are some of the most hypocritical people in the world when it comes to our economy. We complain about our half a trillion dollar defense budget, our youngsters being sent off to die for some ME heck hole, and having to police the world.........yet look at all the fat pensions, government contracts, stock prices, and 401ks attached to a company like Boeing, Lockheed, NG, etc.
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