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One of the fun jobs I had in High School with parking cars at events for a club... had never been inside the gates before... we never asked or solicited tips but some really did tip well... gave me a glimpse at how others live... sometimes we would help with clean up and the manager would always have the chef put together plates for after our shift.
I had lots of different jobs... the two where I learned the most people skills would be working at a Dealership cleaning and prepping cars and working at a Specialty Car Restoration and Parts business... the guys that came in all had done well financially and many were more than happy to give a kid advice... sometimes I would just stock shelves and listen...
Almost to the last one... all advised to get into Real Estate and the sooner the better... this is why I bought my first home right as I turned 22...
I had been working since age 12 and saved... wanted to own in the worst way and was getting no where... started looking at the Realtor's office for the least expensive MLS listings each week... they came out in a book... finally bought the least expensive listed home in Oakland CA... much to the chagrin of friends and family... best financial move of my life because owning my home outright and the process of remodeling taught me lessons I used to buy my next project every 18 months or so...
I was not alone... several of my High School friends... some married with a kid and some not did the same...
My husband and I are Gen x'ers. We're doing much better than our parents did.
The amount of free time that everyone has today as compared to past generations is mind-boggling. Binge-watching, internet surfing, etc. My parents never had that kinda time.
I have no idea where people got the idea that boomers had it easy. Dad worked and mom stayed at home. No debt, but we didn't have much, either. Every penny was accounted for. I'd argue their lives were SIMPLER, not necessarily EASIER.
Neither my parents nor my husband's ever owned a house---if they had more money, they rented nicer places, if circumstances changed, they moved to cheaper places
We never had air conditioning
We had one tv, no cable.
We only had one phone.
Vacations were camping at state and national parks
We never ate out (really, I think we may have had McDonald's twice and that was a huge deal)
My parents rarely bought new anything--furniture was handed down as were clothes
We had few outfits
We never drank soda or fruit juice---it was either water, coffee, or tea
We grew most of our food and canned it
Our meals were incredibly simple and repeated alot
I have far more free time than my parents ever did
A family of 5 and we had one car
My father was laid off twice. My husband's father was temporarily disabled. I'd describe both of our families as middleclass.
If people chose to live that way today, how much could they save?
People today don't realize what they're spending their money on. Cable, cell phones and internet add hundreds of dollars to the normal monthly bills. If you saved just that money starting at age 20 how much would you have for retirement? There's always some new gadget to spend your money on these days. Iphones and iwatches, tablets, etc, etc, etc... I don't think people realize just how much of their income is going for what is really entertainment for most of us.
I think it is great if a person wants to be an early adopter and always have the latest and greatest... that said, it is a choice.
I have owned 3 computers over 30 years... so about 10 years per operating system... my own family and friends likely have owned easily twice as many...
My brother had a box of old cell phones... keeps them about 2 years... his first was a brick that cost $1800 way back when.
The same goes for cars... I kept the $800 Plymouth I bought in high school for 20 years as my daily driver... still have it and have been offered as much as $3500 for it.
There is no end on what people can spend money on...
Just remember there are needs and there are desires...
My one editorial comment is many simply refuse to wait and desire instant gratification.... very unlike my parents generation.
If people chose to live that way today, how much could they save?
People today don't realize what they're spending their money on. Cable, cell phones and internet add hundreds of dollars to the normal monthly bills. If you saved just that money starting at age 20 how much would you have for retirement? There's always some new gadget to spend your money on these days. Iphones and iwatches, tablets, etc, etc, etc... I don't think people realize just how much of their income is going for what is really entertainment for most of us.
Cable is the thing I don't think breaks the bank because a lot of people don't use it. Cable companies are crying these days, not very profitable. Disney's cable channels lose millions of subscribers - Nov. 26, 2015 They are trying to get out of the TV business and into the internet business as quickly as possible.
Cell phones and internet are pretty much required for modern life. I'm not convinced these cost that much more than communications in the past. Remember long distance charges?
Yes you can buy the fancier versions, but smartphones per person cost about 60 a month. My tablet came with my wireless plan. I didn't even ask for it, I just got it and its data is shared with the phones.
Adjusted for inflation, that's pretty much what people always paid to stay in touch with the world. My dad's home phone bill in the 80s was around $35. Actually given the range and breadth of what they can do, we're saving money. Similar capabilities in the 1980s as a smartphone today would have cost you thousands in computer prices, scores in long distance charges, a monthly charge for a newspaper subscription, all the emails would be like $10 a month if sent over the mail or by fax, etc...
Then, as now, no one forces you to stay in touch with the world.
Renting will 'get you the house now' faster than buying will, but there's something to be said for getting the amenities and financial benefits of ownership now as opposed to the financial black hole of renting.
Well I said a large house. They don't want a smaller startup home, has to have 4 or 5 bedrooms. God forbidtwo siblings have to share a bedroom.
Well I said a large house. They don't want a smaller startup home, has to have 4 or 5 bedrooms. God forbidtwo siblings have to share a bedroom.
The average middle class family has somewhere between zero and two children. Pretty much nobody "needs" more than a 1,500 square foot 3 bedroom 2 1/2 bath house.
Cable is the thing I don't think breaks the bank because a lot of people don't use it. Cable companies are crying these days, not very profitable.
Comcast earned $16 billion on $74.5 billion in revenue for 2015. After paying an enormous amount o Federal corporate income taxes and a bit of interest, their net income was $8 billion. They take that profit machine and buy content providers. They own NBC-Universal. They'll be buying other monster content companies.
How exactly did you post that to the internet? Smoke signals?
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD
The average middle class family has somewhere between zero and two children. Pretty much nobody "needs" more than a 1,500 square foot 3 bedroom 2 1/2 bath house.
I grew up in a family with 9 kids, and in the first house I remember, there were 5 kids in a 2 bedroom house, so all of us in one bedroom. Even when we moved to a larger 3 bedroom home and added onto it, I still shared a room with two younger brothers. Being familiar with that experience I preferred to do better for our 3 kids, so the house we are still in after they have grown up is 3,000 sf and 6 bedrooms. Now my wife and I each have a room to ourselves for hobbies, and we have guest rooms for holiday visitors from out of state. Perhaps no one "needs" it, but if people can afford it, there are good reasons for a larger home.
I think it is great if a person wants to be an early adopter and always have the latest and greatest... that said, it is a choice.
I have owned 3 computers over 30 years... so about 10 years per operating system... my own family and friends likely have owned easily twice as many...
My brother had a box of old cell phones... keeps them about 2 years... his first was a brick that cost $1800 way back when.
The same goes for cars... I kept the $800 Plymouth I bought in high school for 20 years as my daily driver... still have it and have been offered as much as $3500 for it.
There is no end on what people can spend money on...
Just remember there are needs and there are desires...
My one editorial comment is many simply refuse to wait and desire instant gratification.... very unlike my parents generation.
Adjusted for inflation : wages are indeed flat, and costs are far higher.
Yep.
The total destruction of the middle class:
4 causes for the collapse of the middles class.
Prison Planet.com » What Killed The Middle Class?
Income gains have all flowed to the top 10%, with most of the gains being concentrated in the top 5% and top 1%:
If the middle class didn’t receive any of the gains, who did? Corporate profits have soared to unprecedented levels:
Yep, good article. Pretty much coalesces with my anecdote collection and income statistics post:
Goodbye Middle Class: 51 Percent Of All American Workers Make Less Than 30,000 Dollars A Year
Prison Planet.com » Goodbye Middle Class: 51 Percent Of All American Workers Make Less Than 30,000 Dollars A Year
"You can find the report that the Social Security Administration just released right here. The following are some of the numbers that really stood out for me…
-38 percent of all American workers made less than $20,000 last year.
-51 percent of all American workers made less than $30,000 last year.
-62 percent of all American workers made less than $40,000 last year.
-71 percent of all American workers made less than $50,000 last year.
That first number is truly staggering. The federal poverty level for a family of five is $28,410, and yet almost 40 percent of all American workers do not even bring in $20,000 a year.
If you worked a full-time job at $10 an hour all year long with two weeks off, you would make approximately $20,000. This should tell you something about the quality of the jobs that our economy is producing at this point."
They Own It ALL(Including YOU!)By Means of Toxic Currency
by Ronald MacDonald, Robert Rowen
"I care not what puppet is placed on the throne of England to rule the Empire,... The man that controls Britain's money supply controls the British Empire. And I control the money supply"
Baron Nathan Mayer Rothschild, of the Rothschild international banking cartel
"From reading the posts, perhaps, the first thing to do, in order to come up with a solution, is identify exactly what "income inequity" is.
In 1960, the average income for semi-professional and non-professional jobs was $7060 a year. In 2010, the average income for those same jobs was $45,406. (source of information is athttp://msn.careerbuilder.com/Article...=JS_2146_home1) And, from another source,. the 2010 figure is about 25% too high. Unfortunately, I do not have the link to the other source.
According to another source, http://msn.careerbuilder.com/Article...=JS_2146_home1 executive income has gone up six times in just the last twenty years. Another words, an exec that is making $360,000 today, was only making $60,000 twenty years ago.
It says that executive pay went up an average of 30% each year for the last twenty years while middle-class America has only gotten an average of 12% each year for the last fifty years. And, we're not including bonuses or "Golden Parachutes".
One more area to look at, and this is from my own experience. In 1965 and 1966, I was making $8,000 a year. I was also paying 17 cents a gallon for gasoline. Just today, the current price of gasoline at the corner gas station at the corner is $3.599. To maintain the ratio between income and the cost of gasoline, today's average income should be about $170,000 a year.
In 1973, I was making $14,000 a year, and paying $51 every six months for car insurance. (And, supporting a wife and two kids, while buying a house for $10,000) The last premium I paid on car insurance came out to $147 a month. Back in 1973, the monthly cost was just $8.50. To maintain the ratio of income to car insurance premiums, today's average income should be about $240,000 a year. Want to check with IRS and see just how many "Average Americans" are actually making that much? And, the story is the same no matter what area of expense you look at, groceries, utilities, housing, etc.
That is what is "INCOME INEQUITY". What to do about it is the "$64,000 question". Solutions are sure to be as varied as the people that offer them, but now, you should be able to come up with a better informed opinion.
Now, with regard to the quote, by all means, give your kids every advantage you can. Stress education. Any kind of court record will hurt their chances for a successful career. But, keep in mind...
Let's say that 99% of the next generation gets a master's degree. (No, I don't think that's realistic) It's also not realistic to think that every one of them will get jobs where they will use that degree. There will be a number of them serving at Pizza Hut. A good education and a clean record does not give them a guarantee, but it does improve their chances at a comfortable life." (end quote)
Congratulations the_windwalker, you've earned a spot on my anecdotes collection that's meant to show in a very concrete way the wage stagflation or really deflation experienced for the bottom 80-90 percent of workers the last 30-40 years. I submit only the top 1- 20% percent of wage earners has kept up with cost inflation. That's 2 in 10 workers, certainly NOT middle class, and I think 20% is pushing it. More like the top 10%.
Keep in mind when you read these anecdotes and watch Dr. Warren's lecture think RATIOS. That's exactly my point. For example: "In 1973, I was making $14,000 a year, and paying $51 every six months for car insurance. (And, supporting a wife and two kids, while buying a house for $10,000). How many people now make 40% more IN ONE YEAR than the value of their HOME!!!!: cool: :thi nk: GuyNTexas' anecdote illustrates this point very well also.
Read more: Income Inequality: What To Do About It?
just because SALARIES haven't kept up with INFLATION doesn't mean we should still CLASSIFY based on 1955/1965 numbers.......average salary in 1966..6900...median house price 14k....about 50% right...use those numbers compared to the median house....the median salary SHOULD be 130k...not 50k
sorry but this is not 1955 , when 250k was rich...please get with the times...its 2010"(end quote)
"The "inequity" comes in where the expenses have out-paced the income for the average American. While EVERYTHING ELSE has gone up, income for the "middle-class" has stagnated over the last fifty years. That is the problem with the economy today. The "middle-class", the MAJORITY of Americans do not have enough money to keep the economy flowing. Inequity = DIS-PROPORTIONATE".
Show me just one exec whose decisions are actually worth a million dollars a day. Even just a thousand dollars a day. Think about it. As great as he was, even Steve Jobs is now replaced. And, as great as he was for the company, he was not that great for America. Look where your Apple product is made. American jobs?
Ever hear of "The Law of Diminishing Returns"? Keep raising your prices, and eventually, you'll price yourself out of business. That is what Corporate America has done. They have priced the economy out of business.
Take a look at the cost of a kit to put a motor on a bicycle. A 50 CC kit has gone up nearly $100 because of the demand. They're replacing cars with motorized bicycles and scooters. And, the auto industry isn't doing as well as they were ten years ago.
If a cashier is being paid exactly what they are worth, then we're paying far more for everything than it's worth. Gasoline isn't worth $3.599 a gallon. Why are we paying that much? Car insurance is not worth what we're paying. Why are we paying it?"(end quote)
Without further ado here's the rest of the collection. In my opinion no one who is honest, can think critically and do math can deny what's contained herein:
Pay close attention to the years in the following posts of people who lived in the mid 70's-early 80's:
"Sad. I made $9 an hour during the Summer break in the mid 1980s running telephone lines in office buildings. It was a horrible low paying job then. You know what $9 is worth today adjusted for inflation since 1985. $4.42 cents. That same job today would be need to pay $18.50 per hour. If you have no perspective on how things suck..you'll settle for anything. The USA will look like these ghettos in Brazil before people wake up to this right wing propaganda they've been spoon fed for 30 years."(end quote)
"You know what $9 is worth today adjusted for inflation since 1985. $4.42 cents."
"Just because things were better, doesn't mean they were great. I don't deny that there were folks like yourself. Nevertheless, more opportunity (on average) did exist back then.
During college I worked part time at a warehouse. One of my co workers was a Guyanese who came into the US illegally in '77 or '78 (he later received amnesty under Reagan). He used to tell me how his first job, as an illegal, paid $10.50/hour. In 2006, after he was laid off from a warehouse making 33/hour, we were working for $12/hr. $10.50 in '78 or 12 in 2006. Inflation much?"(end quote)
"Also the wages aren't there and if you compare that with inflation it just doesn't work.
In 1980, I had an entry level job as a sound engineer with a local independent TV station earning $5.00 per hour. One paycheck paid my rent and utilities and auto insurance and the other 3 paychecks each month were disposable income.
An entry level job today pays $8.50 to $10 per hour and even at $10 per hour it takes 2 paychecks to cover the cost of rent, utilities and auto insurance (and don't forget in 1980 $10 -- or two hours of work -- paid for 2 tickets to the cinema show, a tank full of gasoline and something to eat after the movie -- the cost of two movie tickets now is over $20)."
(end quote)
Originally Posted by PullMyFinger:
Original Post: I have jobs but no one wants them
"The guy is a typical, narrow minded moron who probably has a picture of Reagan on his wall and NOBAMA stickers on his car. He really thinks in this world, with gas being $3.50 per gallon and food twice what it was 5 years ago that $8.50 per hour is "competitive" How friggin stupid can anyone be? I was making more than that in 1981 in a part time job. I started out at $14.00 per hour in 1984 when I bought my first house for $42,000!
He has NO RESPECT for his employees. None.(end quote)
"No. I'm really disagreeing with .. not missing your point. And those numbers don't tell a very accurate story, and the proof is demonstrated by the drop in net worth of middle income earners as their debt has increased significantly, while earnings have declined relative to inflation.
By most measurable data points, the middle income class has been dying a very slow, incremental death for 4 decades because the costs on high ticket items have increased more rapidly than the either the inflation rate or rates of increases in income. To further compound the problem, average income levels have failed to keep pace with the inflation rate itself. Much of this goes unnoticed because of it's slow incremental nature (like growing old). But if you are old enough, and still maintain your mental faculties, you can't be bull $hted into believing what you are trying to say here.
As just one example, in 1977, I bought a brand new Pontiac Trans Am for $5200. And since it was my first car purchase, I suspect I was clubbed like a baby seal (paid full MSRP), as I simply asked how much, and said OK (later I learned the error of this way to purchase automobiles )
Now today, that car is no longer available, but a comparable car "Chevy Camero SS" is. And a similarly configured model is around $35,000 MSRP. Which is almost double the adjusted for inflation number of $18,700 that Camero should cost relative to the $5200 Trans Am of 1977.
My income back then was 14,000 or just shy of 3 times what the car cost ... if you apply that same formula to the $35,000 Camero today, I'd have to earn roughly $100,000 per year to maintain the same standard (drive the same car) as my $14,000 income provided then. I was not wealthy then .. I was a 20 year old working in a warehouse driving a forklift. And I don't think there are many 6 figure forklift drivers around today ... I would say, the 40-50K range would be the upper limit ... or roughly the same as my $14,000 would be, adjusted for inflation.
This is one example, and almost any big item ... car, house, etc. works out to be the same. Some other items like Healthcare have dramatically exceeded those rates exponentially compared to 1977 where mine was absolutely free and first rate, including dental.
Now, add to this the higher taxes, social security withholding, and medicare ... all of which have exceeded the inflation rate (and don't let anyone BS you into believing it hasn't), means that the net spending power of your income has declined dramatically over the past 30+ years. (See video below she documents ALL this IN DETAIL)
Now around about that same time frame, my step father worked for one of the US Government agencies earning roughly in the 50-60K range, and at the time, that was very good money, but not even close to RICH & Wealthy .... but adjusted for inflation, that comes out to around $200+K now. The house he purchased then at $50,000 appraised for $480,000 in 2004-5 even though the adjusted for inflation value would have only dictated a $155,000 figure ... 3 times the inflation rate!! By the time he retired in the late 90's, his income may have doubled, yet his house increased by 6-8 fold. What does that tell you?
Now if you are following me here ... this is where it gets real hairy ... if you take a Quarter ... 25 cents ... from say 1964 (the last 90% silver Quarter) that 25 cents equates to $1.76 in 2010 value. But guess what? Today's melt value of that sliver quarter is about $3.70 which is again more than double the published inflation rate ....
So what does that all mean? It means very simply, that the value of your money is worth about half of what it's claimed to be worth, even after being adjusted for inflation .... and all it takes is to actually look at the historical costs of items like cars, and houses and health care costs from the late 60's to today, and also the median incomes. You see that the purchasing power has indeed declined. And this is a result of the devaluation of the currency (a hidden tax).
So when it comes to buying power, there has been a continuous decline that doubles the the inflation rates admitted .. which is why the middle class really doesn't exist for all practical purposes today.
There are the ultra wealthy, and the rest. The $250kers are just at the higher end of that rest of us, and they are the last of the upper middle class, and the next in line to fall ... apparently, much to delight of many who think that they are members of the Wealthy Club, and must fall for the sake of everyone.
I suppose this proves that indeed, misery loves company."(end quote)
"Which is ... I might add .... $17/hr is roughly $6 per hour in 1980 dollars adjusted for inflation, or $12,000 per year. Though that doesn't quite tell the whole story, since there are many costs that have increased way more than 3 fold, which makes me question the inflation calculations today.
For example, a brand new 1980 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 cost about $6,500 in 1980, while a 2013 Camaro SS Coupe runs close to $40,000 ... which is double the calculated inflation rate .... so a person buying a new camaro back then who was making $10/hr in 1980, would have to make $60/hr today, to be in the same financial situation.
That's just one example of many .... my regular bills back then were ... $12 phone, $25 electricity, no cable, no internet, no cell phone .... and rent was $250. My total living expenses (living alone) was less than $300 .. and food costs were about $20 per week, give or take. Gas was about .65 - .75 cents per gal as were cigarettes about .75 .... and you could get a beer in a bar for .50
I never had to juggle bills .... I lived quite well, drove a brand new car, went out on weekends regularly, never had to deny myself anything, and still managed to stash a couple hundred bucks away in a savings account every month ... on $10/hr
Don't try to live that way today ..... people who have no direct experience of what things were like back then, really have no idea how badly they are "taking it" today. No idea!"
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two siblings have to share a bedroom.
