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Old 02-22-2017, 09:51 AM
 
Location: The Triad
34,088 posts, read 82,920,234 times
Reputation: 43660

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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieHere View Post
Your theory would be correct except how do you account for millions of legal immigrants
who can't speak English correctly and doing well.
It's called having a useful and needed skillset.
People with such useful skill sets are NOT where the problems are.

Quote:
I met many of them in Silicon Valley, even those who graduated from UC Berkeley.
But they are engineers.
Yeah; like that.
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Old 02-22-2017, 10:00 AM
 
Location: USA
6,230 posts, read 6,920,039 times
Reputation: 10784
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
Opening a Dry Cleaning shop won't make anyone's clothes dirtier.

Can you cite any example of any good or service -that's actually needed- which isn't already available?


At the individual level... certainly; maybe that happy Dry Cleaner.
I have done the small business route. I ended up working far too hard for far too many hours and often for much less money than I would have earned working a regular job.
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Old 02-22-2017, 10:05 AM
 
2,578 posts, read 2,067,004 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
Don't be absurd. Of course birth control, planed parenthood, is at the CENTER of the underlying issue.
What's that? Too many warm bodies from those least able to do for themselves.

Doing better for themselves, in one of those towns with far fewer jobs or in Manhattan,
is almost entirely about reducing the competition they face for what jobs DO exist there.

Doing better for their dependents, in one of those towns with far fewer jobs or in Manhattan,
is almost entirely about reducing the number of children that will have to provided for...
and even more critically the mothers age when they are conceived; far too often far too young.
You make my argument ... people should be supported and enabled to succeed.
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Old 02-22-2017, 10:07 AM
 
Location: USA
6,230 posts, read 6,920,039 times
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Most of small town and rural america do not have the jobs skills needed to earn the high wages required to live in a major city. They would ultimately end up on public assistance or even homeless.
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Old 02-22-2017, 10:25 AM
 
Location: The Triad
34,088 posts, read 82,920,234 times
Reputation: 43660
Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodburyWoody View Post
...people should be supported and enabled to succeed.
Agreed. The number one best of these supports are viable and free ways to avoid early parenthood.
And to limit parenthood in total generally especially by those least able to provide.

Or did you have some other argument?
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Old 02-22-2017, 02:43 PM
 
2,411 posts, read 1,973,733 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
Opening a Dry Cleaning shop won't make anyone's clothes dirtier.

Can you cite any example of any good or service -that's actually needed- which isn't already available?


At the individual level... certainly; maybe that happy Dry Cleaner.

Ok .. you got me there then. We are obviously doomed and at a complete dead end in the 'countryside' just because no one out there needs a 'service' like dry cleaning. And nothing new in the universe will EVER be invented or marketed again because you may think there isn't anything that isn't already available that anyone could possibly want or need. And no one will ever have an inquisitive mind ever again either I suppose. At this point, we can officially say we have stopped the world and anyone with a dream or ambition to be an entrepreneur can just get right off this bus and go back to the city. There is no hope. /sarc off


My goodness. I guess you don't realize that those with an entrepreneurial spirit (which I guess is NOT cultivated any more - more people have one than know it I think and it used to be encouraged - which is part of my point .. it is not being any more. And apparently it has gone beyond that too .. someone must be actively discouraging it if this is the kind of response you give me!) often are also 'inventors' even if you don't know it. Check the patent registries and watch shows on TV like Shark Tank (and in Canada, the equivalent Dragon's Den) and you will see people are still out there 'inventing' new stuff and trying to manufacture and market them.


But when governments regulated kids' lemonade stands out of existence it seems they killed a lot of America's entrepreneurial spirit and drive. Kids doing things like that at the end of the drive in the summertime used to inspire at least some of them to want to be their own bosses some day - and to invent a better lemonade perhaps. But even that explanation is probably going right over your head.


Even IT people who want to 'invent' a new program or way to do things in the high tech world need a (metaphorically speaking) cheap garage to operate out of - how many free garages are there in downtown Manhattan that are suitable for that kind of work? And how many people these days who don't work directly with customers/clients every day could not 'telecommute' from a small town most of the time? People do seem to want to do that if they can. But they may not be bound either to the career they do it in or maybe they want to start their own concern which uses telecommuters all over the place .. all based in small town America. Many ways to skin a cat you know .. and I am pretty sure that there are a lot of cats yet left to skin too .. some we have not even met yet.


What the heck ARE they teaching in colleges and universities these days? How the heck are they removing the real spark that is innovation from so many heads? Why are the eyes of so many young city dwellers who commute almost more hours a year than they work so dead these days? Why do I read so many posts about people who are stir crazy and hate their bosses, etc. but seem to have absolutely no drive or ambition (other than to just 'get a better job'/move to another 'cubicle'/take another college major, because their current job options are limited, and go into more debt to produce virtually nothing of value) or excitement or imagination about what they could do in life? Have we bred all this out of the many who used to be so enthusiastic about all the possibilities in life in previous generations?


Additionally there are small businesses who compete in the same fields as larger ones but are at a disadvantage if they have to pay big city prices for real estate and workers, etc. but may be able to compete if they had a cheaper place from which to operate. And surprisingly there may also be bigger businesses who will move at least some of their operations to smaller town areas if there is incentive to do so - like cheaper labour, cheaper land prices.


And there are dreamers out there who won't open a business at all (having investigated previously all the hoops they would have to jump through) unless regulations are changed/reduced and perhaps less paperwork they hate doing or can't afford to hire high big city accountants to do for them is required of them. Fix the issues (many of them regulatory and very onerous for startups) and they may just jump right into the fray, if they can also operate in a cost-effective area.


That is how we start revitalizing small town America by replacing the industry or agriculture that used to be there IF those are no longer viable. I don't think we should just write off 3/4s of the country just because 'you can't bring back mining' or whatever it is. These places do NOT have to become ghost towns (or they can be brought back) with enough forward thinking innovative people taking on that revival with vigour.


It can't and won't happen over night .. it is a process .. but if people just discard the possibility, if they just 'assume' that the way things are now is the way things must always be, if they have no will and no vision .. there is NO chance it will happen. If they exhibit the 'no can do' attitude you seem to have, you are correct .. it will not ever happen.


I could go on .. but I am guessing my original meaning was lost on you and whatever I say won't fix that. If all you can do is ask me about dry cleaning, I suspect YOU don't have what it takes.
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Old 02-22-2017, 02:49 PM
 
Location: The Triad
34,088 posts, read 82,920,234 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aery11 View Post
Ok .. you got me there then.
We are obviously doomed and at a complete dead end in the 'countryside' just because...
My but you do go on. tl;dr

When the entrpreneur opens his shop and regardless of what the goods or services
he might be offering he is NOT expanding the market for that particular good or service.

The MOST he can hope to do is grab share from someone else already providing it.

Perhaps our new guy can do it better and justify the business shifting...
but it is not a net gain for the market.

hth
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Old 02-22-2017, 02:59 PM
 
2,578 posts, read 2,067,004 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
Agreed. The number one best of these supports are viable and free ways to avoid early parenthood.
And to limit parenthood in total generally especially by those least able to provide.

Or did you have some other argument?
That there are those whose agenda keeps viable and free ways to avoid early parenthood from those who need it most, despite the consequences. I believe that some of those who do this, do so as a means of control.

But, yeah, we agree. I believe people should be well-informed from an early age about how and why and all that follows with parenthood as well as information and resources to avoid parenthood until they decide they are ready.
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Old 02-22-2017, 03:22 PM
 
Location: The Triad
34,088 posts, read 82,920,234 times
Reputation: 43660
Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodburyWoody View Post
But, yeah, we agree. I believe people should be well-informed from an early age
about how and why and all that follows with parenthood as well as information
and resources to avoid parenthood until they decide they are ready.
I go a bit further.
In addition to the free contraception etc...
there should be CASH rewards to women for delayed/limited childbirth.

$X at age 30. $Y at age 40
with an extra bump for those from a poor home.
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Old 02-22-2017, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Spain
12,722 posts, read 7,567,076 times
Reputation: 22633
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
When the entrpreneur opens his shop and regardless of what the goods or services
he might be offering he is NOT expanding the market for that particular good or service.

The MOST he can hope to do is grab share from someone else already providing it.
This would only be true if the nature of service market and corresponding demand was static, which it isn't.

About two years ago they opened one of those overpriced cupcake places at a strip mall near me. They got lots of foot traffic in there because of large grocery chain anchor next door, and I suspect (but cannot prove of course) expanded the local market for overpriced cupcakes with cutesy names just by availability. I doubt all of their customers went in there thinking "I'm buying a goddamn pistachio lemongrass cupcake today" they just saw good stuff through the glass on their way to Kroger and went in. It isn't like they used to buy their impulse cupcakes on Amazon or by driving 20 minutes to the nearest alternative cupcake place.

Same with proliferation of those bouncy places that spread everywhere a few years back. It isn't like kids/teens had some alternative to go pay money and have padded bouncy land games, some entrepreneur rented the space and put a big sign up and now locals go to spend money for this new market segment of foam rubber entertainment. That market expanded due to the entrepreneur offering the service at a place people could easily get to, he didn't steal customers from other existing bouncy places he made new customers to that market.

Uber and Lyft expanded the market for ride sharing via mobile apps. Dish network once expanded the market for getting TV from satellites. Netflix once expanded the market for sending DVDs in the mail, then expanded the market for digital content delivery over the internet.

Countless other examples.
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