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Old 04-30-2017, 12:52 PM
 
4,224 posts, read 3,018,697 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff View Post
If you care about reason, why are you baiting Pub-911? There is no reason in the rhetoric spewing from either side of your fence.
There are indeed plenty of folks here who simply can't keep up. Before they drown in heavy swells of ignorance, I try to throw them a lifeline.

 
Old 04-30-2017, 01:00 PM
 
30,897 posts, read 36,958,653 times
Reputation: 34526
Quote:
Originally Posted by hitpausebutton2 View Post
hmm. amazing how other countries does have better infrastructure than we have, and still able to keep cost low. Things like speed trains, solar, wind, cellular.
You have no freakin' idea. Those countries pay through the nose in taxes to have those things. I've been to Europe. Those high speed trains aren't cheap to ride, either. Heck, even the regular trains aren't all that cheap.

In a typical European country, they pay 18%-20% in VAT, a type of sales tax, which is included in the price of all goods you buy, sometimes even groceries. Not to mention they pay higher income taxes as well.

Outside of health care, America is a CHEAP country!!! (And our health care would be a lot cheaper too if we didn't have such horrible health habits that lead to so many unnecessary cases of obesity, diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, etc.)
 
Old 04-30-2017, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,667 posts, read 6,595,121 times
Reputation: 4817
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss20ts View Post
In most areas of the country, there are plenty of options for housing.
Quite true. I suspect most of the complaining is from people living in popular urban areas, trying to get by on a McJob.

It has however gotten tougher in general for those at the lower income levels. Even at the median, rents have gotten a lot more expensive.



They idea that rents can magically be lowered (or "should" be), is pretty naive though. That's asking for a Big Daddy bureaucratic mess. Better to focus on what is causing the great divergence of incomes and wealth over the last 40 years.
 
Old 04-30-2017, 01:10 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss20ts View Post
Taxes in Europe are significantly higher. It's also significantly easier and cheaper to build a train system in a country the size of Alabama than it is a country as large as the US. Then what do you do about Alaska and Hawaii? They're no where near the 48. Most countries with these "fabulous" systems are also VERY small countries. Be sure to look into their finances as well....Greece, Ireland, Germany, etc. Many aren't well ff.....barely hanging on by a thread!
I would add, all are also much more densely populated than America, too.

In Europe's defense, Germany's finances are actually in better shape than America's. Germany has had government budget surpluses the past few years and has lower debt to GDP than the U.S. Ireland is doing better, also with budget surpluses. Greece is still a mess. France is also running high deficits.

https://www.ft.com/content/7a06d15e-...6-2d969e0d3b65
 
Old 04-30-2017, 01:15 PM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,667 posts, read 6,595,121 times
Reputation: 4817
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post
That's a fair point, but while a lot of the Trumpsters obviously don't understand... blah, blah, blah
You said reason. I'm still waiting.

Beating on a strawman you've created for the "opposite side" is not a rational argument.
 
Old 04-30-2017, 01:18 PM
 
30,897 posts, read 36,958,653 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CGab View Post
The only thing I agree should be supplied for free is healthcare through our government and that even wouldn't be free as it would come out of our taxes.
The problem with "free" health care is there are a ton of people like the OP who are (already) happy to eat/drink/drug themselves into oblivion, make themselves sick with all kinds of preventable diseases that cost a fortune to treat, and then expect someone to treat them.

In the same way that our OP doesn't recognize how much work/cost goes into maintaining utilities, so that he can have his air conditioning 24/7, health insurance has created a monster because the relationship has been broken between personal habits/lifestyle and the cost of health care.

At least the OP still has to pay the bill regarding utilities and has to consider how much he uses. With "free" health care there are lots of people like the OP who simply don't think about the cost--or even care. Heck, they don't even care about their own health, let alone the cost to everyone else.
 
Old 04-30-2017, 01:22 PM
 
30,897 posts, read 36,958,653 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tone77 View Post
Free? No. But these maybe should be "not for profit". I believe basic necessities that humans need to exist should be sold to them "at cost", not at a rate where a few individuals get richer off it.
"Not for profit" is no guarantee of a service being done cheaper. Just look at public sector workers (and I work in the public sector)...the cost just goes into pensions for them instead of to the corporate bottom line.
 
Old 04-30-2017, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,667 posts, read 6,595,121 times
Reputation: 4817
Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger View Post
health insurance has created a monster because the relationship has been broken between personal habits/lifestyle and the cost of health care.
The "monster" is nearly all in the insane amounts spent on old people. Note that all these other countries have "free" government healthcare, and manage to keep costs under control while providing better outcomes.

 
Old 04-30-2017, 01:37 PM
 
30,897 posts, read 36,958,653 times
Reputation: 34526
Quote:
Originally Posted by rruff View Post
The "monster" is nearly all in the insane amounts spent on old people. Note that all these other countries have "free" government healthcare, and manage to keep costs under control while providing better outcomes.
But the U.S. does a sh*tty job at it. Just look at Medicare/Medicaid costs...they keep outpacing inflation year in and year out.

And the undisputed fact remains that we now spend $1 Trillion a year in treating preventable diseases in the USA. This video was done 5 years ago, so it's probably more than $1 Trillion now.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waGHi6aMzh8&t=16s
 
Old 04-30-2017, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Ruidoso, NM
5,667 posts, read 6,595,121 times
Reputation: 4817
In case anyone is interested in how much houses in the US cost compared to other developed countries, I found this chart showing the house price/income ratio.




They use averages rather than median, and also disposable income, which both make the US look better. But housing in the US is still relatively cheap if you stay out of the trendy spots.
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