U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Thread summary:

The great theft of America, wall street, real estate industry, big oil, CEO’s to blame for greed and collapse of country, country of consumers, non-savers

Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-17-2008, 09:36 AM
 
5,090 posts, read 9,983,011 times
Reputation: 3961

Advertisements

Hey JSH,

Don't really disagree with the most of your points, at least in the context you present them . . . . but . . . .

At what point in your 41 year old life do you grow up and become able to respond and adapt and take charge of your own life?

Not knocking you. Just wondering.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-17-2008, 09:45 AM
 
Location: Erie, PA
12 posts, read 29,531 times
Reputation: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoaminRed View Post
Who stole from whom? People are stupid, they overspent without the means or the motivation to repay and now they're just up and walking away. It's stupidity, not theft that is bankrupting the nation.

Since the Reagan Revolution and after, corporate tycoons have pretty much gotten a free pass.

While most people remember President Lyndon Baines Johnson for his "Great Society", they don't realize Johnson era programs also benefitted the (disappearing) middle class with things like Regulation Z, a.k.a. The Truth in Lending Act. This law made it illegal for banks and mortgage companies to be ambiguous in the terms of home mortgages.

The bankers were let loose like rabid dogs let off their leashes by recent banking deregulation policies. Banking deregulation eviscerated the protections afforded under Reg Z. Most of the people being bitten by the recent debacle were not given fully disclosed home loan terms. It's not fair to say to them that it's all their own fault for being stupid. When the terms of a mortgage are not truthful or are too ambiguous, people are robbed of being able to make fully informed choices.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-17-2008, 10:02 AM
 
2,197 posts, read 6,784,621 times
Reputation: 1687
Good grief! Here's a tip for ALL generations:

Stop the whining, blaming and finger-pointing and suck it up! Try to leave the world a better place than you found it and take responsibility for your own role in making it what it is. Blaming it on the Boomers or Gen XYZ is a cop-out. If you can do better, then do it. Instead of spouting negative energy bashing this generation or that generation, spread positive energy by getting out there and helping bring about change for all generations. Unless, of course, you're happy with things the way they are.

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. So be part of the solution.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-17-2008, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Erie, PA
12 posts, read 29,531 times
Reputation: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip T View Post
Hey JSH,

Don't really disagree with the most of your points, at least in the context you present them . . . . but . . . .

At what point in your 41 year old life do you grow up and become able to respond and adapt and take charge of your own life?

Not knocking you. Just wondering.
I could return your snarky question with an equally snarky remark and tell you to buy the book if you really wanted to know. However, I am feeling gregarious today so I'll answer your question:

I've been on my own fending for myself since I was orphaned at 13 back in 1980. Upon being orphaned, I was thrown out onto the streets of Philadelphia - the meanest streets in one of America's toughest cities. When most kids got fake ID's to buy beer, I got a fake ID just so I could get a crappy minimum wage job to try to afford rent and food - while trying to get through junior high and high school. Medical and dental care were luxuries out of my reach.

I went from being a kid to a woman overnight - and I had to scrape and struggle as I tried to make it in a selfish, middle class white male Baby Boomer dominated society. A society, I might add, that was abysmally less than fair to poor orphaned 13 year old girls (and other "throw-away" kids) with nothing and no one, OK.

Poverty restricts options and choices, as does classism, gender discrimination...and disabilities.

In order to be in a position to "take charge of my own life" as you put it, I fought discrimination against women in the male-dominated skilled construction trades union until I became disabled at age 24 (and then denied SSI).

The same men who shunned committment (except to the bar or their cable TV bill), and who griped about their taxes supporting welfare mothers, and who complained about female "gold diggers" were the ones to vote for Reagan who began dismantling what little safety net there was for poor women. None of those men stepped up to the plate to take a stand against job discrimination against self-supporting women who were "taking a man's job" to be able to live if they didn't have Prince Charming to marry and support them and didn't want to resort to prostitution or strip dancing to make it.

Pink collar McJobs without health benefits didn't cut it then and still don't. A poor woman on her own doesn't get to pay less for a roof over her head and a loaf of bread than a middle class white male.

In order for someone to "take charge of their own life", they first need access to resources. If you're poor and unable to get a job at all, never mind one that pays enough to be able to live despite doing "all the right things" against a backdrop of nealry insurmountable obstacles such as poverty, discrimination and disability, you don't have resources. Trying to create your own job in the event of not being able to get one only works if you're not destitute (as I was)...it takes money. It takes being creditworthy. It also takes someone being willing to give you a chance.

There are undeniably marked differences between men and women, social classes, and those with disabilities versus those who are able-bodied.

If you're really interested in learning more, feel free to check out the reviews on "Classism For Dimwits", my very first book, which is on the Amazon site. It is also on Barnes & Nobles' online site, too.

Jacqueline S. Homan,
Author: "Classism For Dimwits"
"Eyes of a Monster"
"Nothing You Can Possess"
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-17-2008, 11:41 AM
 
Location: Ohio
20,932 posts, read 14,821,313 times
Reputation: 17220
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
The victims are working class America.
They aren't victims. The stinky rich gave them the rope to hang themselves, and they not only bent over backward to pay for something that was given to them for free, they put it on their credit cards and then paid interest on top of that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-17-2008, 01:10 PM
 
Location: Tampa Bay
1,020 posts, read 3,098,453 times
Reputation: 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
What we are currently witnessing the greatest larceny in history. What has taken place is the theft of the accumulated wealth of a whole generation. The perpetrators in this feat include the past three Presidential Administrations, Congress, the Real Estate industry, Wall Street, Big Oil, and most of the CEO’s of major industry.
The victims are working class America.
The World War II generation, also known as the “greatest generation” was a generation of savers. They grew up during the great depression and understood that economies do collapse from time to time. As a consequence of their experiences, they lived within their means, and in addition to building the strongest economy on earth, they saved more money collectively than any generation in history, by some estimates more than 40 trillion dollars. Their heirs, the “Baby Boomers” inherited this windfall and for the most part it is now all gone.
The Boomers were really an easy mark for the corporate thieves who have been orchestrating this plan for decades. Growing up in a world where they had everything, they are a selfish generation who in there earlier days were labeled the “me” generation. They were willing to set aside common sense and allow their egos to lead them to ruin.
The mechanics of this plan was a confidence game that began with the 1990 recession.
Recessions are a natural part of the normal economic cycle and purge the system of debt and insolvent investments. They regulate the excesses of expansions and reallocate assets away from those who do not manage them well and they are taken over by the more conscientious.
Interest rates usually rise reflecting the increased demand for money and risk of lending. Cash becomes king. Recessions are reality checks that we as humans need to keep our perspective.
In 1990’s recession, the Federal Reserve “stimulated” the economy by lowering interest rates and increasing money supply in order to give banks both the ability and incentive to loan more money to the public. While this policy did stimulate the economy it also interfered with the natural purging that should have taken place at that time. People who would have had to file bankruptcy due to excessive spending in the 1980’s were able to borrow their way out of trouble.
Beginning in the 1990’s the psyche of the Baby Boomers began to change. Borrowing and not saving began to be the path to riches. There was also a new vehicle to finance their extravagance, the HELOC, a home equity mortgage that turned their home into an ATM.
By the end of the decade the economy was once again booming and everyone was getting rich in the Stock Market.
Leverage was the tool by which millionaires were made. Public confidence was at an all time high and there was no end in sight for the new prosperity.
In 2001 it all fell apart and more than 8 trillion dollars was lost.
The Federal Reserve once again came to the rescue lowering interest rates to the lowest levels most people had ever seen. By simply refinancing their home they could borrow their way out of trouble and perhaps buy a new car to boot!
The new millennium was truly a wonderful time. No longer did people have to suffer thru the hard times brought on by over extravagance. Borrowing was the answer to everything.
The trap was now complete. If all worked well, the Boomers would borrow and spend at a furious pace, in a vain attempt to keep up with the Jones’ making corporate CEO’s filthy rich as record profits rolled in.
In the end the banks would hold notes for everything the Boomers owned and they would be on the hook to the banks for the rest of their lives. In retirement, they would need a reverse mortgage to get by, and when they died they would be basically broke.
More than 40 billion dollars of wealth would have changed hands. It was a perfect plan, until they went too far. Not wanting the party to end, they grossly over inflated Real Estate values allowing borrowing 2 to 3 times the value of the assets. Unsecured credit also skyrocketed. The problem was now a runaway locomotive with the Financial Institutions holding trillions of dollars of bad debt.
As the government and the talking heads in the media told people nothing was wrong and to just keep spending and investing, the Real Estate market rolled over and began to fall. The Real Estate Industry denied there was a problem until they lost all credibility. The banks panicked, knowing they were now insolvent. The CMO’s, derivatives containing bundled mortgages in which most of their money was invested, were now illiquid.
The Government and the Federal Reserve went into emergency mode, manipulating economic reports, dropping interest rates and injecting money into the system.
They had gone to the well once to often and this time the trick did not work. There was simply too much debt; no one was going to be able to borrow their way out this time.
The price of commodities, oil, and gold increased to record levels as the value of the dollar plummeted. Foreign investors lost confidence in the dollar, and the Governments ability to manage the situation, as they came up with a multitude of hair brained plans that did little or nothing to reassure the public or the Stock Market.
Anticipating more than 100 bank failures, the Resolution Trust Corporation began calling up retired workers, employed during the time of the S&L debacle, to deal with the mass of insolvencies.
We are now facing a situation where the values of assets (Real Estate, Stocks and Bonds) are falling, while at the same time commodities, (Energy, Food, Imports,) are rising.
Debtors are being wiped out. Savers are seeing the value of their money ravaged by inflation. Unemployment is growing.
The economic problems are spreading throughout the world, and a worldwide recession is now a very real possibility.
While many are still in denial, there is no doubt now that the party is over. The bills are due and have to be paid. Unfortunately it will be the taxpayer who will be paying. If you do not believe that, simply look at the actions of the Fed in the past few weeks. Their plan to take mortgage paper from the banks in return for treasuries will result in the Fed being stuck with the worthless paper when the banks do go into receivership. Now they are stepping in and bailing out Bear Stearns, increasing the national debt and deflating the dollar and increasing inflation. Eventually they will have to increase taxes to service the debt and insure their ability to borrow from foreign lenders.
The only upside to all this is that it will cause a lot of pain, and hopefully the people will get angry and actually take some interest in what is going on.
You see while it is Big Business and the Government that has stolen the prosperity that was ours and our children’s, the blame is ours.
It was our complacency and lack of evolvement that allowed the Government to run amok and to serve their own interests instead of ours.
I would give you more than one rep point if I could.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-17-2008, 01:16 PM
 
28,905 posts, read 47,579,484 times
Reputation: 46157
You're right. The government sent in the brownshirts and forced working stiffs to go out and buy big screen TVs, fishing boats, new cars for the kids, SUVs the size of Montana, bigger houses, Sony Playstations, trips to Cancun, $250 sneakers, and all the other trappings of affluent life, all so these people would deplete their life savings. Yep. Because the working class people of America obviously have no brains or free will.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-17-2008, 01:20 PM
 
Location: Tampa Bay
1,020 posts, read 3,098,453 times
Reputation: 444
MHHHHMMM. Nice spin. Okay not really.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-17-2008, 01:21 PM
 
Location: U.S.A.
90 posts, read 193,985 times
Reputation: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilnewbie View Post
I originally wrote something a page long... then I erased it to put in three words.. "We are screwed!"



In a nutshell, yes After the year 2030 will be interesting.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-17-2008, 01:54 PM
 
28,905 posts, read 47,579,484 times
Reputation: 46157
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_pines View Post
MHHHHMMM. Nice spin. Okay not really.
Trust me on this. I did market strategy for a long time before I could afford to quit and write novels for a living.

On big ticket items, the ones who spend more on consumer goods are not the people at the top of the income ladder, but those on the bottom. Take telephone services. The phone companies market Caller ID, 3 way calling, etc. etc. etc. to the low income people because upper income households don't buy them. Lower income people will tend to spend more money on consumer electronics, athletic shoes, etc. etc. That's not mere supposition on my part. It was the result of research report after research report. Counterintuitive? You betcha.

But if you read a book like The Millionaire Next door, you realize that people who really have money are far more apt to be driving Buicks than Mercedes, et al.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2020, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top