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As I said, I know it's not meant that way, but the way it comes across (to a relatively objective observer) is that "we are okay therefore there isn't a problem" and/or "we did okay therefore you just didn't try hard enough". I don't really see it as balancing, I think we all know everything doesn't apply to everyone.
Think of this on another forum, with a thread about how statistically women's chances of marrying go down after 40, and women posting that yes, they can see that, and have been trying to meet someone and are upset they can't...then someone comes on and says "That's BS, I met my husband at age 42 and we couldn't be happier". The fact this person met someone after age 40 and got married does not make the statistics less true, she's simply an exception to it. And the way she words the post implies the other women are simply doing something wrong. Of course that is going to make people defensive. The fact you and others are doing well does not change the fact that many people are going to suffer in retirement. I'm not really sure what it adds to the conversation, but again I can understand why it would make people defensive.
but statically, most people are not doing bad... the over portrait of it on the internet makes it seem worse than it is
maybe 20-30% of the population is doing poorly, but that means 70-80% are fine.
unless someone decides that the "bottom" third should be part of the rest of us, then you have the new bottom fifth that replaces the old bottom third
but statically, most people are not doing bad... the over portrait of it on the internet makes it seem worse than it is
maybe 20-30% of the population is doing poorly, but that means 70-80% are fine.
unless someone decides that the "bottom" third should be part of the rest of us, then you have the new bottom fifth that replaces the old bottom third
Maybe it depends on your perspective. From mine, which is my family and friends as well as the retired patients I work with in rehab, many, many people are doing truly terribly and really living hand to mouth. On the other hand, when I was with my ex, most of his friends were doing well, so our world view was that overall people are doing well.
Most people I know are going to be like my mom, some money saved, she had about $100,000, a very low income ($400 pension from decades as a secretary plus then about $1000 in SS, and a home that had the misfortune of existing in a neighborhood that turned in a bad way. A home she could not afford to maintain due to her low income, and she was terrified of spending any of her savings (thank God, as that saved her later) My mom bought her home for $36,000, and 4 decades later we sold it as-is for $50,000.
She tried to save money by having a zero premium Advantage Plan, but every time she went to the hospital and rehab, we'd owe $5,000 or $6,000 in co-pays.
Myself, I went to school late and paid off student loans until I was in my forties. I tried to play catch up and managed to save about $60,000 in investments and $30,000 in cash...then I developed severe Sciatica last year, had surgery, and was out of work for 10 months. At the same time, I had $50 co-pays for every doctor and every PT appointment, and $250 each for 4 epidurals, and Ubers to those appointments because I couldn't drive, and now that $30,000 is about $3,000.00 I'm 55 in a very physical job, and have no idea how long I can do it.
My brother was an auto mechanic. With him and his wife both working they were fine. But she left him for a guy she worked with, and he spent the next 15 or so years, his prime working years, paying for two households and unable to save anything. 4 years ago, he too had back surgery, and had to retire from being a mechanic. The only other job he could find with his skills was a chain auto parts store. So now at 62, he makes about $8.00 an hour. He is in pain even now, and wants to retire, except he can't because he would be paying over $1000 a month to get health insurance at his age, and he can't afford that.
I work with a facility full of CNAs and housekeepers and dining service people who will never be able to retire. We have CNAs (certified nurse's aides) that are close to 70. They limp down the hall to one of 12 patients a day they may have to roll them, dress them clean them, lift them into a wheelchair. They look exhausted and in pain.
Any way, this is my world view, and from my perspective the article is correct to conclude we should be concerned for the future of many. Again if your circle and environment and people you meet is different, it is harder to relate and believe so many struggle. I don't think 70-80% of people are doing well from what I see.
Maybe it depends on your perspective. From mine, which is my family and friends as well as the retired patients I work with in rehab, many, many people are doing truly terribly and really living hand to mouth. On the other hand, when I was with my ex, most of his friends were doing well, so our world view was that overall people are doing well.
Most people I know are going to be like my mom, some money saved, she had about $100,000, a very low income ($400 pension from decades as a secretary plus then about $1000 in SS, and a home that had the misfortune of existing in a neighborhood that turned in a bad way. A home she could not afford to maintain due to her low income, and she was terrified of spending any of her savings (thank God, as that saved her later) My mom bought her home for $36,000, and 4 decades later we sold it as-is for $50,000.
She tried to save money by having a zero premium Advantage Plan, but every time she went to the hospital and rehab, we'd owe $5,000 or $6,000 in co-pays.
Myself, I went to school late and paid off student loans until I was in my forties. I tried to play catch up and managed to save about $60,000 in investments and $30,000 in cash...then I developed severe Sciatica last year, had surgery, and was out of work for 10 months. At the same time, I had $50 co-pays for every doctor and every PT appointment, and $250 each for 4 epidurals, and Ubers to those appointments because I couldn't drive, and now that $30,000 is about $3,000.00 I'm 55 in a very physical job, and have no idea how long I can do it.
My brother was an auto mechanic. With him and his wife both working they were fine. But she left him for a guy she worked with, and he spent the next 15 or so years, his prime working years, paying for two households and unable to save anything. 4 years ago, he too had back surgery, and had to retire from being a mechanic. The only other job he could find with his skills was a chain auto parts store. So now at 62, he makes about $8.00 an hour. He is in pain even now, and wants to retire, except he can't because he would be paying over $1000 a month to get health insurance at his age, and he can't afford that.
I work with a facility full of CNAs and housekeepers and dining service people who will never be able to retire. We have CNAs (certified nurse's aides) that are close to 70. They limp down the hall to one of 12 patients a day they may have to roll them, dress them clean them, lift them into a wheelchair. They look exhausted and in pain.
Any way, this is my world view, and from my perspective the article is correct to conclude we should be concerned for the future of many. Again if your circle and environment and people you meet is different, it is harder to relate and believe so many struggle. I don't think 70-80% of people are doing well from what I see.
It doesn't matter how many people are doing well, because as a society we can ignore them. They can take care of themselves. Our concern has to be for the people who, for whatever reason, are not able to care for themselves. The discussion has to be about how we will do that. The big demand for care facilities is just starting. State and local sources have to pony up 40% of medicaid. It already puts a lot of stress on state budgets, and will only get worse. Somebody will have to pay for building and staffing a lot of new care facilities. The alternative is to deny necessary care, which is already happening.
A discussion of how people became destitute is not relevant to their care. You can't turn back the clock and make different choices or avoid accidents. Bad things often happen to good people. A few cautionary tales might help the next generation, but people in their mid-50s or 60s are pretty much where they will end up, unless their health fails. A heart attack, auto accident, cancer or stroke may not wait until Medicare. If you can't work, your plans can quickly vanish. I have seen it happen to my friends. It's unlikely that society will support them in anything resembling comfort. I think the best they can expect is survival. I expect care facilities to come to resemble dormitories, with private rooms being extra.
i don't know about anyone here but my concern is us .... i can't control others , . i can give to charities to help them but that is where i have to pretty much end my concern and draw the line .
that is why i couldn't care less about statistics and who has what . quite frankly i don't really care to know as well as statistics are skewed by whomever is putting them out .
worrying about keeping myself out of financial trouble or returning to the nyc projects i came from is my "concern "
we once saw a commercial on tv about impaired driving . they said 40% of all accidents involve alcohol or drugs . i said to my wife " see , it safer to drive stoned than it is straight . the other 60% of the accidents are those straight .
she was cracking up and i said this is why you have to watch statistics thrown out there . you can mold them to mean whatever point you want to make .
Last edited by mathjak107; 01-09-2018 at 02:48 AM..
I don't think I am going to be able to retire. I pretty much did everything "right." I've been saving for retirement ever since I got out of college (even before the loans were paid off). A few years after I graduated, I sat down with an accountant and was told I was on track. I was going to have a million by retirement. It doesn’t look that way now.
The only break I took was when I was unemployed for a short period. I am saving the max in my Roth IRA still and put another 11% in my 401k (my employer puts in 6%). All I have to show for it is $260k and every calculator I plug that into says it's not going to be enough even if I keep saving the way I am. It will run out in my 80s if I retire at 67. Most women in my family live into their 90s and I seem to just as healthy as they were when they were my age (maybe healthier because I never smoked).
The only bit of hope I have is that these calculations that say I will need 85% of my income (or even 70%) are wrong. I save a total of 30% of my income (both retirement and non-retirement). I live in a very high cost of living area and housing is 40%. So (assuming the house is paid off and I stop saving for retirement after I retire) why would I need 70% of my income when I currently live off of just 30%?
No retirement calculator I've found agrees with me, but I would think maybe 50% would be good guess of what I would really need in retirement (even though I lose the mortgage and retirement savings, there will be new costs like medical bills and such, so the current 30% seems low). When I plug in needing 50% of my income, I come pretty close to breaking even and having my money last until I am 95.
I am assuming an average 5% return over a lifetime BTW.
Although, I sometimes wonder if I really ever do want to retire (even if I could). I am not married. I doubt that I ever will be (I have a long term boyfriend, but marriage isn't on our radar at all. He's also older than me and has emerging cardiac issues. Barring an accident or sudden illness, I will probably outlive him). So what am I going to do in my older years? Sit around all alone and watch videos (or whatever they have in the future)? Volunteering might be nice, but I could still do that and work part time. I'd do it just to be social and bring in some extra cash and keep medical benefits, that would be enough.
Last edited by BellaLind; 01-09-2018 at 07:41 AM..
unfortunately life has no double blind tests , so you can't help but wonder what someone else would have come up with in your position / we just can never know .
i only know how i handled falling behind . i learned to work smarter and not longer or harder by taking the skills i had and found side work i could do on my own schedule that paid nicely and used that to bolster savings when the bills ate up whatever i thought i would save .
the trick was getting side work that paid more than my job . it just was not consistent enough to be a sole career on a daily basis .
the answer was not going to be working another gig at 7-11 for low pay working 80 hours a week .. . how you invest matters too . investing allocations count very heavily.
there can be almost 2x the difference saved between a 60/40 mix and 100% equities .
so investing is where your money works for you at the same time you work for your money . but how you invest makes a big difference . as i always point out , bogging yourself down with bonds when you are younger hurts your balance at the end , all the time .
Last edited by mathjak107; 01-09-2018 at 07:57 AM..
unfortunately life has no double blind tests , so you can't help but wonder what someone else would have come up with in your position / we just can never know ............
Actually there seem to be lots of comparisons that can be made. With a lifetime of observation it becomes clear how many people succeed and others in the same circumstances fail or just survive. The difference is mainly one of attitude. Those who do well take control and responsibility. They take the steps needed including putting out the needed effort and sacrifice. The paths they take might vary a lot. Some go back to school. Others give up a reasonable job and go somewhere else with better opportunity. Others take on part time jobs. Those who do not succeed often just seem to drift like a cork at sea. They do not invest the time and energy to go back to learn or to get another job or another career. They complain that life treated them unfairly and others had better luck.
we know it is a fact that many times there will be those who find a way-while others just find an excuse .
but every case is a bit different and we can never do one of those double blind tests .
but everything you said is very true . i see it with people i know . i begged my buddies from my project days to go to apex tech with me in the 1970's . they said nah .they did not want to have to learn math and science to become an hvac tech .
well today they are raising their own families there . to them it looks like they didn't do anything wrong . they just couldn't get good paying jobs . but it all goes back to a history of poor choices and bad decisions that put them where they are today .
Actually there seem to be lots of comparisons that can be made. With a lifetime of observation it becomes clear how many people succeed and others in the same circumstances fail or just survive. The difference is mainly one of attitude. Those who do well take control and responsibility. They take the steps needed including putting out the needed effort and sacrifice. The paths they take might vary a lot. Some go back to school. Others give up a reasonable job and go somewhere else with better opportunity. Others take on part time jobs. Those who do not succeed often just seem to drift like a cork at sea. They do not invest the time and energy to go back to learn or to get another job or another career. They complain that life treated them unfairly and others had better luck.
Exactly. Most in America aren’t born into a situation they can’t rise above, unless there are physical or mental handicaps. Most of it is attitude.
it is creativity , motivation , attitude , drive to succeed and FINDING THE OPPORTUNITY . opportunity does not come looking for you . if you do nothing you will have nothing .
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