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Old 01-11-2018, 11:16 AM
 
10,075 posts, read 7,496,982 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cabound1 View Post
Education needs to be free to level the playing field. The way to prevent the Harvards of the world from admitting rich future donors over poor people is to make all education public and free. I’ll never see it.
How much education are you planning to provide? K12 is fine, if twelve years of education can't get someone to a point where they can be independent adults, what more do you want the govt to provide?

Might as well make sure everyone gets a $100k 9-5 job too or else they will want free certs, free continuing education, free training, free food

For all the free colleges in Europe, how come their millennials have a higher unemployment rate?

Make education free if you want to make that your pet social project, but what does that do for employment when everyone can pull out the same paper?
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Old 01-11-2018, 11:23 AM
 
31,672 posts, read 40,946,963 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cabound1 View Post
Not sure what the question is..... I’m just opining that the roof over your head should be treated as an expense and that the money saved by renting small should be invested elsewhere. If you choose to buy a bigger space, fine. But this notion of “buy the biggest house you can afford” as the best way to build wealth is laughable.

It’s nothing more than an excuse to buy the house you WANT. Fine....but don’t think it’s the best use of your money, because historically, it is not.
You said on the path to wealth. However once you have reached that level of wealth is larger or large ok.
Full disclosure We are almost 70,now retired over ten years.
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Old 01-11-2018, 11:25 AM
 
Location: TN/NC
34,914 posts, read 31,030,575 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
It's been an ongoing conversation with freemkt for years. The adults in the room who have owned homes have a pretty good sense for total cost of ownership. Owning is more expensive than renting. That's not going to change with a 'tiny home' versus renting a room. You're still paying property taxes, insurance, water, sewer, electric, energy for HVAC, building maintenance, yard maintenance, and everything else that comes with home ownership.

I own because I use the discretionary spending to improve my perceived quality of life. If I were simply trying to pile up the largest possible pile of net worth, I'd rent.
In a competitive rental market, those costs just get passed on to the tenants. If the landlord has twenty potential tenants on a waiting list for ten apartments, they can just pass the costs along - the units are not likely to sit vacant and there is a strong demand. In a weak rental market, yeah, the landlord may have to eat some costs or offer concessions to tenants.

At my last apartment, I paid all the utilities except for trash. The trash was provided by the city and was a nominal charge - like $25/month. The electric bill was high in the summer largely because of an inefficient heat pump and poor insulation. What could I do about it as a tenant? Other than complain to the landlord or move, absolutely nothing. When I left, there were tenants on a waiting list. The landlord doesn't have to do much when there is a queue of people wanting a unit.

Yes, as an owner, you are responsible for the maintenance, but a landlord is almost never going to repair or renovate to the standard an owner-occupant would in his own home.

I bought the cheap townhouse because my all-in costs on PITI + COA are under $550/month, in a gentrifying, hip area (such as it is around here) of a college town. I can bike or walk to the downtown scene without worrying about getting killed crossing a busy highway. Units built by the same developer around the same time rent for about $1,000/month. Given what I bought for, it doesn't take long to make up my transaction costs with that sort of delta between renting and owning.

There is no one size fits all energy and it's going to vary from individual case and from market to market, but I doubt renters are going to come out ahead over the long-term, on average, in normal housing markets that are not stuck appreciating at the inflation rate or below.
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Old 01-11-2018, 11:44 AM
 
Location: TN/NC
34,914 posts, read 31,030,575 times
Reputation: 47280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cabound1 View Post
Education needs to be free to level the playing field. The way to prevent the Harvards of the world from admitting rich future donors over poor people is to make all education public and free. I’ll never see it.

But I agree that if you choose to make bad decisions, there’s no bailing you out. Make health care free and universal, make education free , and drastically cut back eligibility for entitlement programs like subsidized housing, food stamps, etc. And for Gods sake, stop subsidizing baby making. People should be penalized for excessive child bearing, not rewarded.

End rant.
An education is no guarantee for a more secure future, but there is no guarantee and all education and most other things do is adjust the odds to more or less in your favor.

I try not to be callous, but when I look around my friends, peers, and social circles, it was generally pretty obvious who was going to be a normal, productive citizen and who wasn't by high school or so. People deserve a second chance, but maybe they don't deserve the nineteenth.

I grew up with a set of twin sisters. Both were beautiful, smart, and could have gone somewhere in the world. Neither did. Both popped out kids in their early 20s. Neither remained with the baby daddy. Both got addicted to drugs - one was more of a user, the other dealt more, and used less. The heavier use overdosed and died back in 2015. The surviving twin was in and out of the hospital all last summer with endocarditis induced by opoid abuse. She's still running with the wrong crowd.

Of course, she's uninsured. Not employed. Might be on Medicaid or the hospital might be eating it, then passing the costs along to the rest of us. At what point does society cut those people off?
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Old 01-11-2018, 11:49 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
18,895 posts, read 14,083,916 times
Reputation: 16606
Any medium of exchange not created by the producers of goods and services bought with that medium is a SCAM to rob, cheat and steal.

FYI : Not even CONgress can create money. By law, it can coin money (stamp bullion) or borrow money. CONgress cannot create bullion. Federal Reserve Notes are not dollars, but IOUs denominated in dollars. They are debt. MINUS VALUE. And the biggest CON of all.

See: USCON Art. 1, Sec. 8, Sec. 10
Title 12 USC Sec. 411

The massive skimming operation enriches those who provide nothing of value, while enjoying the bounty of those workers who prodigiously produce surplus usable goods and services.

No society, nation or civilization can endure, when parasites and plunderers can legally rob with impunity. It will collapse. The only question is when and how bad it will be.
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Old 01-11-2018, 12:04 PM
 
1,801 posts, read 1,231,630 times
Reputation: 3606
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation View Post
An education is no guarantee for a more secure future, but there is no guarantee and all education and most other things do is adjust the odds to more or less in your favor.

I try not to be callous, but when I look around my friends, peers, and social circles, it was generally pretty obvious who was going to be a normal, productive citizen and who wasn't by high school or so. People deserve a second chance, but maybe they don't deserve the nineteenth.

I grew up with a set of twin sisters. Both were beautiful, smart, and could have gone somewhere in the world. Neither did. Both popped out kids in their early 20s. Neither remained with the baby daddy. Both got addicted to drugs - one was more of a user, the other dealt more, and used less. The heavier use overdosed and died back in 2015. The surviving twin was in and out of the hospital all last summer with endocarditis induced by opoid abuse. She's still running with the wrong crowd.

Of course, she's uninsured. Not employed. Might be on Medicaid or the hospital might be eating it, then passing the costs along to the rest of us. At what point does society cut those people off?
I agree - that’s what I’m saying....try to provide a level playing field by ridding advantages of being born into wealth, but beyond that, you are on your own.

I have similar stuff going on in my own family. All had access to education, but chose different paths. I’m no longer sympathetic.
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Old 01-11-2018, 12:17 PM
 
31,672 posts, read 40,946,963 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cabound1 View Post
I agree - that’s what I’m saying....try to provide a level playing field by ridding advantages of being born into wealth, but beyond that, you are on your own.

I have similar stuff going on in my own family. All had access to education, but chose different paths. I’m no longer sympathetic.
Many of us at varying levels of wealth made decisions and did things to give our kids a competitive advantage over others. It is also our hope and expectation that they will do the same for their kids
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Old 01-11-2018, 12:31 PM
 
1,801 posts, read 1,231,630 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuborgP View Post
Many of us at varying levels of wealth made decisions and did things to give our kids a competitive advantage over others. It is also our hope and expectation that they will do the same for their kids
That’s where I disagree. I shouldn’t be at a disadvantage to your kids because you are college educated and my parents aren’t. That’s why we have generational poverty.....once in the rut, it’s harder and harder to get out. The disparity widens instead of narrows.

People should all have equal opportunity at birth. If they screw it up, fine, no endless chances.

It will never happen, but I’d even prohibit inheritances..... spend it all, or give it to the government at your death. No passing it off to the offspring. Your, and everybody else’s, kids are entitled to nothing. They need to earn it on their own.
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Old 01-11-2018, 12:33 PM
 
28,107 posts, read 63,495,557 times
Reputation: 23226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cabound1 View Post
Definately. Home ownership is the most overrated investment vehicle imo. That said, it’s more than just an investment, it’s got lifestyle implications also. Renting the smallest space you can possibility exist in is the fastest path to wealth.
She this happen a lot with immigrant families... they will rent small and save... putting bunk beds in the living or dining room... everyone works... after 5 to 8 years they are buying.
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Old 01-11-2018, 12:37 PM
 
28,107 posts, read 63,495,557 times
Reputation: 23226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cabound1 View Post
That’s where I disagree. I shouldn’t be at a disadvantage to your kids because you are college educated and my parents aren’t. That’s why we have generational poverty.....once in the rut, it’s harder and harder to get out. The disparity widens instead of narrows.

People should all have equal opportunity at birth. If they screw it up, fine, no endless chances.

It will never happen, but I’d even prohibit inheritances..... spend it all, or give it to the government at your death. No passing it off to the offspring. Your, and everybody else’s, kids are entitled to nothing. They need to earn it on their own.
Confiscatory taxes were the demise of many a small business and especially farms... I'm glad this is less the case.

On the flip side I was thinking about some long term planning and wanted to leave a property and include my nieces and nephews... the parents said bad idea and didn't want me doing that... said I could leave a remembrance but the last thing a kid needs is someone leaving them a house...
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