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Old 12-22-2017, 09:58 PM
 
Location: Wasilla, AK
7,448 posts, read 7,580,581 times
Reputation: 16456

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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanley-88888888 View Post
i always found it counter-intuitive that if you are rich enough to afford paying for a house then the government considers it a deduction. but if you are too poor to afford a house then you cant deduct your rent.

there was an article a few years ago that many welfare programs would be paid for each year from the taxes not collected for mortgage interest and home improvement deductions.
The deduction is for the interest you paid, not the principal. You cannot deduct principal paid just like you cannot deduct rent paid. Nothing counter-intuitive about it.
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Old 12-22-2017, 10:08 PM
 
Location: Wasilla, AK
7,448 posts, read 7,580,581 times
Reputation: 16456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliott_CA View Post
The best way to reduce welfare and other government assistance is to raise the minimum wage to a "living wage." If people made enough money to support themselves, their incomes would be too high to qualify for many types of government help. High wages would provide an incentive to get off the dole.
Once you study economics you'll understand why that would never work. You can raise the minimum wage all you want. Raise it to $100 an hour. But don't be surprised when a Big Mac now costs $75. Look at the minimum wage in five year snapshots. Most of the people who made minimum wage five years ago have moved up the wage scale. If you're in your 30's or older and you're still making minimum wage, then you haven't done anything to make your labor more valuable to your employer. Rewarding someone with an undeserved pay raise through a higher minimum wage just means employers will have to cut costs somewhere and that usually means they reduce their labor force and make the remaining workers work even harder. Raising the minimum wage is just a feel-good measure that doesn't work.
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Old 12-22-2017, 10:11 PM
 
3,319 posts, read 1,814,733 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hitpausebutton2 View Post
So seems our taxes are going to go up for the middle class and down for the rich..
Are you even MILDLY aware of the contents of the tax bill?
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Old 12-22-2017, 10:11 PM
 
Location: Wasilla, AK
7,448 posts, read 7,580,581 times
Reputation: 16456
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
Really?

GENERAL WELFARE CLAUSE. Article I, section 8 of the U. S. Constitution grants Congress the power to "lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts, and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common defense and general Welfare of the United States."
Do you really think that means give welfare payments to the people? The general welfare means the good of the country. Handing out free money to able bodied people is not in the best interests of the country.
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Old 12-22-2017, 11:35 PM
 
3,437 posts, read 3,284,294 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlaskaErik View Post
National defense is a federal responsibility, per the Constitution. Welfare isn't.

does national defense mean outspending every other country?
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Old 12-23-2017, 12:20 AM
 
2,076 posts, read 4,071,283 times
Reputation: 2589
I believe anyone who works 40 hours per week, even at a menial job, should be able to afford to have some place to live, food to eat, and the ability to get medical care.

I'd be happy to pay more for the goods I purchase to allow that to happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlaskaErik View Post
Once you study economics you'll understand why that would never work. You can raise the minimum wage all you want. Raise it to $100 an hour. But don't be surprised when a Big Mac now costs $75. Look at the minimum wage in five year snapshots. Most of the people who made minimum wage five years ago have moved up the wage scale. If you're in your 30's or older and you're still making minimum wage, then you haven't done anything to make your labor more valuable to your employer. Rewarding someone with an undeserved pay raise through a higher minimum wage just means employers will have to cut costs somewhere and that usually means they reduce their labor force and make the remaining workers work even harder. Raising the minimum wage is just a feel-good measure that doesn't work.
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Old 12-23-2017, 04:37 AM
 
745 posts, read 479,688 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HudsonCoNJ View Post
The one obvious area where we overspend is military. I would start cutting costs there.
Maybe you are right, but how will that help fixing the welfare problem? Are you interested in giving out more welfare?

If a bunch of defense related jobs are eliminated due to spending reduction, that could create the possibility of more people on welfare.
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Old 12-23-2017, 04:41 AM
 
745 posts, read 479,688 times
Reputation: 1775
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrkliny View Post
Sounds like you have listened to political statements on the new tax plan. More likely taxes are going to go down for almost everyone including some reductions for those who currently pay the most.


Now as to your fixes?


What about people who cannot find a job or are unable to work or need to care for children? Many cannot work 20 hours per week or in fact any hours. I assume you mean you want a program to prevent "unintended" pregnancies and births. There are programs or at least there have been. Now the religious right wingers are destroying them.


Random drug and drink tests. People on welfare are not allowed to drink? Why not just drug test everyone on a random basis? That will help with the war on drugs that has failed for decades and has consumed lots of law enforcement efforts. Substance abuse is considered a medical condition. Do you want to pick some additional medical conditions that would stop someone from getting welfare? Maybe diabetes and obesity. There are lots of people with diabetes or obesity. That would reduce costs.


So you want to end the welfare after 2 years. Just throw the families out onto the streets or just shoot them?
One reason many who are on welfare is because of alcohol and/or drugs. If not them directly, possibly their family members. If I am not collecting welfare, then there is no reason to test me.

If you are looking at it as a fairness issue, it is not fair that people have to bust their hump at work while others lay about and have someone else support them.
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Old 12-23-2017, 04:52 AM
 
745 posts, read 479,688 times
Reputation: 1775
Quote:
Originally Posted by cebuan View Post
Our wealth distribution system was devised when there was more work than men, by economists who never dreamed it would be otherwise. But the world now has more men than work. If we do not come to grips with that simple fact, we are speeding headlong to an unimaginable human social catastrophe. We must find a way to distribute wealth to men whose work is not needed.

Simply forcing men to do non-productive jobs is not the answer. Nor, is it useful to clutter the work place with people who have no desire nor inclination to be productive workers. Their output is unsatisfactory, and the are disruptive to both the morale and flow of the workplace. Just identify the workers who are disinclined to be productive, and pay them a basic sustenance wage to stay home.
And when those workers are identified, more workers will start to self-identify that way.

The problem these days, is there are not enough people who want to be entrepreneurs at a local level. Those who wish to start a company seem to want to do it at a high national/global level trying to make the quick buck and often fail. Better to start small and expand if your business is successful.
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Old 12-23-2017, 05:01 AM
 
745 posts, read 479,688 times
Reputation: 1775
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby Snacks View Post
Most of these are good ideas, but there are several problems most of these caused by the Republicans. Work a 20 hour/week job doing what? How do you afford housing? In many areas, the housing cost is astronomical and the national minimum wage hasn't increased in years. It's still $7.25/hour, while rents for an apt/house are at least $900 or $1000/month in many areas. And birth control programs? Also a great idea, except Republicans are defunding Planned Parenthood and removing contraception from insurance coverage because their loving God tells them to
I don't know where you get that "Republicans caused most of these problems". As far as planned parenthood, when we have to rely on the government completely controlling our lifechoices, we are done for anyway.

How many democrats have invested in corporations that lobbied for not increasing minimum wage? It is a lot, so don't fool yourself. Additionally, many states have higher min wage levels anyway, so it really doesn't matter.
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