Would this reduce the rising cost of college (taxes, $10k, payments)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
We're going to have to agree to a certain amount of disagreement here; I see the situation from a fairly radical viewpoint that doesn't include bland assumptions about graduate salaries and "worth" of an education primarily intended for elevated employment.
But no, I do not think only Ivy-level education is worthwhile. Anything but.
I think that far too many students (hundreds of thousands, if not millions) attend the wrong schools for the wrong reasons and the wrong goals... and at far too much money. What I hand-flap at as "Midwestergan U" and such is not a dismissal of middle-tier schools - nearly all of those schools have a body of students who are in the right college, for the right major, for the right reasons, and will come away with a truly valuable educational asset.
But... many of those schools also have a bloated body of indifferent, marginally-qualified students who have to go somewhere to get their STEM job ticket, cuz that's where the money is, dude. And these students pay a Rolls-Royce price for what's marketed to them as a top-tier education, because money substitutes for all their shortcomings and gets them that prized work permit. Midwestergan sent them the acceptance (Thank God!) and away they go, off to four or five years in the bottomless debt mines so they can work for Microsoft.
And, to bring this around, high-profiles sports departments are the leading marketing tool for these otherwise rather indistinguishable schools.
So maybe your Iowa or Alabama or Michigan or Indiana degree is a gold-plated block in your professional and career status... or maybe it's just a piece of paper that tells employers you could pretend to stay awake for four years and might know something about the field stamped on it. But either way, it probably cost you four to five years of your peak earnings.
(1) On this we agree, and it's something all prospective college students should keep in mind as they sift through their options for what to do after high school.
(2) It didn't for my generation, but it could very well be the case for this one. If I could give any advice to young parents right now, it's "Save early and often." University expenses are breath-taking today, and they're likely to get worse.
(1) On this we agree, and it's something all prospective college students should keep in mind as they sift through their options for what to do after high school.
My step 1 is "evaluate who you are, what your strengths, interests and limitations are, and choose a broad career path before you look up projected salaries in four years. Emphasis on 'broad,' as most 17yos are nowhere near ready to make a life-shaping choice of a narrow education/training/career path, and thus fall prey to parents, counselors, greed and laziness in aiming for whatever will pay the most five years out.
Quote:
(2) It didn't for my generation, but it could very well be the case for this one. If I could give any advice to young parents right now, it's "Save early and often." University expenses are breath-taking today, and they're likely to get worse.
Saving as much as you can is always good advice. I do have rosy hopes that secondary education straightens itself out in the near future, with costs and accessibility for qualified students being a primary goal.
Some of the issues raised make good sense. My daughter is ont eh graduate student senate at a non-flagship state college, so she gets the numbers of what they ae spending. They spend a fortune on athletics - stadiums, recruiting, travel, insurance, millions upon millions all charged back to the students. Why? So the school can be division 1 but one of the least competitive in the region? Only the big name schools come out ahead on sports programs, the rest just spend tons of money for no benefit. Just do club sports, or drop to division II or III. who cares? It is a status that only matters to the administrators and professors, not students, at least not at that cost.
Then you have the constant drive to tear down existing buildings and build new temporarily palatial looking buildings. Here they are spending billions. For what? The former buildings worked fine, they were just "dated" Gotta tear them down and put them in a landfill so we can have a new building that will soon be dated itself. If students choose a school based on how new the buildings are - well those students are pretty stupid aren't they? You do not really want those students anyway. Mostly these buildings are a monument to the current administration. By putting their name on some overpriced building they can live forever. Who cares if the students have to pay for it all.
Some universities spend an absolutely insane amount of money to ensure political correctness. Who is that benefiting? Not the students who have to pay for it. Not the taxpayers who pay as well.
However tuition is only a fraction of the the cost of college. Dorm living costs more than apartment living at most schools. Why? In large part because of the need to constantly tear down serviceable buildings and replace them with newer (but usually less safe) dorms that are basically the same.
$800 books? How can you justify $800 textbooks? A book costs about $16 unless some professor is trying to make a killing selling their book or helping a friend make a killing. Hey lets just rape the student's futures and get rich. Isn't that why we are here?
Thee whole package is out of control. Yes there are some scholarships available (not for middle class white males, but for other people) Still the cost is prohibitive. Whoo hoo, you got a scholarship of $6,000 a year. Where are you going to get the other $18,000?
There should be no question, they have to get the cost of college under control. It is more out of control than ever, Debt loads are crazy and comparing college debt to inflation adjusted figures from 1988 does not work because pay rates are not comparable. IN my field, graduates barely make more than what I started at in 1988 and I started at a pretty average (maybe slightly above) for my time. With four or five times the debt, how can they service that debt on roughly the same income? I could barely handle it at 1/4 or so of the amount and 90% of the same salary.
This will come to a head in about 10 - 15 years when all the graduates start defaulting on their insane student loans. Maybe sooner. Loans will dry up. Colleges will declare bankruptcy left and right because they cannot pay for their overprices and over build buildings, sports and insurance to cover it all. A college crash is coming, the current system cannot be sustained.
I read a study a few months ago about a large number of rich legacy families, that barely qualified over lower income highly qualified students that attend public and private universities. That has some negative conclusion on the cost to students that don't benefit from it.
Some of the issues raised make good sense. My daughter is ont eh graduate student senate at a non-flagship state college. Still they spend a fortune on athletics - stadiums, recruiting, travel, insurance, millions upon millions all charged back to the students. Why? So the school can be division 1 but one of the least competitive in the region? Only the big name schools come out ahead on sports programs, the rest just spend tons of money for no benefit. Just do club sports, or drop to division II or III. who cares?
Then you have the constant drive to tear down existing buildings and build new temporarily palatial looking buildings. Here they are spending billions. For what? the former buildings worked fine, they were just "dated" Gotta tear them down and put them in a landfill so we can have a new building that will soon be dated itself. If students choose a school based on how new the buildings are - well those students are pretty stupid aren't they? You do not really want those students anyway. Mostly these buildings are a monument to the current administration. By putting their name on some overpriced building they can live forever. Who cares if the students have to pay for it all.
Some universities spend an absolutely insane amount of money to ensure political correctness. Who is that benefiting? Not the students who have to pay for it. Not the taxpayers who pay as well.
However tuition is only a fraction of the the cost of college. Dorm living costs more than apartment living at most schools. Why? In large part because of the need to constantly tear down serviceable buildings and replace them with newer (but usually less safe) dorms that are basically the same.
$800 books? How can you justify $800 textbooks? A book costs about $16 unless some professor is trying to make a killing selling their book or helping a friend make a killing.
Thee whole package is out of control. Yes there are some scholarships available (not for middle class white males, but for other people) Still the cost is prohibitive. Whoo hoo, you got a scholarship of $6,000 a year. Where are you going to get the other $18,000?
There should be no question, they have to get the cost of college under control. It is more out of control than ever, Debt loads are crazy and comparing college debt to inflation adjusted figures from 1988 does not work because pay rates are not comparable. IN my field, graduates barely make more than what I started at in 1988 and I started at a pretty average (maybe slightly above) for my time. With four or five times the debt, how can they service that debt on roughly the same income? I could barely handle it at 1/4 or so of the amount and 90% of the same salary.
This will come to a head in about 10 - 15 years when all the graduates start defaulting on their insane student loans. Maybe sooner. Loans will dry up. Colleges will declare bankruptcy left and right because they cannot pay for their overprices and over build buildings, sports and insurance to cover it all. A college crash is coming, the current system cannot be sustained.
Another bit of advice from one who has two in college right now: run the numbers to see how living expenses pencil out. For my second, living in a dorm is more affordable, and returning to our home over the summers to work full-time is the better option. My oldest shares an apartment and lives there year-round, but that's his choice, and he has a job that supports his lifestyle. Many students choose to move off-campus without really thinking things through and are then gobsmacked by expenses that were included with room & board.
Another bit of advice from one who has two in college right now: run the numbers to see how living expenses pencil out. For my second, living in a dorm is more affordable, and returning to our home over the summers to work full-time is the better option. My oldest shares an apartment and lives there year-round, but that's his choice, and he has a job that supports his lifestyle. Many students choose to move off-campus without really thinking things through and are then gobsmacked by expenses that were included with room & board.
Just to put my viewpoint in context... six kids, two through good colleges and in adult life, one in the trade school she wanted (and taking care of her own financial aid, with Dad's wallet backing her up), and two about to enter college - an arts school in Toronto and (probably) Juilliard.
Another bit of advice from one who has two in college right now: run the numbers to see how living expenses pencil out. For my second, living in a dorm is more affordable, and returning to our home over the summers to work full-time is the better option. My oldest shares an apartment and lives there year-round, but that's his choice, and he has a job that supports his lifestyle. Many students choose to move off-campus without really thinking things through and are then gobsmacked by expenses that were included with room & board.
Our middle college offspring rents an apartment seasonally. Buys groceries and cooks most of his food. He has 3 roommates, but they each have their own bedroom. It costs just a bit over half of the cost of living in a dorm and buying cafeteria service.
I think that is a lot to be gained living a a dorm the first year. After that if they want to stay in a dorm, they can find the extra money on their own.
My oldest shares an apartment and lives there year-round, but that's his choice, and he has a job that supports his lifestyle.
living in the dorms is also a lifestyle, but many dorm dwellers do not have a job to support that lifestyle, instead they rely on student loans to pay for that lifestyle
what kind of debt do you think a lifestyle based on relying on loans provide? this is why people cry about high student debt, they took the financial aid for learning and spent it on living instead of working for their living expenses
I've come to believe the people think colleges should be glorified trade schools. At least that's the vibe I get from here on C-D.
No, no. Most colleges ARE glorified trade schools, pumping out job tickets in a narrow range of fields (and the specialized track within those degrees gets narrower over time, as well).
Colleges and universities should be about education, not (essentially) just technical or professional training.
We lack a good, respected tier of... something between mechanical trade schools and colleges, something that can do the essentially rote training of most who go into IT, software etc. But the schools that do such things are considered lowbrow certificate mills, so we keep packing the U's with technical trainees sleeping through English classes.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
