The effects of retail raising minimum wage? (buy, stores, work)

[MrRational]

Originally Posted by jrkliny

I fail to see the logic.

That high MW levels dissuade employers from hiring people who don't already have skills.
That seniors no longer need to care about training and advancement.

Unless/until we can do something about the oversupply of no/low skilled YOUNGER people
who clamor and compete for far too few of what should be "entry level" jobs...
their time will never be worth an investment by employers to train or to improve their skills.
The few of their fellows who are willing/able to do that on their own... pretty much are.

Many of us seniors are retired. We are not working.
We are more likely to be using the services of low paid workers.

That could include housekeeping, senior care workers, and aides.

None of which can (or should) ever be considered as 'career path' jobs.
Well, certainly not at their current wage & benefit levels.

[jrkliny]

Originally Posted by MrRational

That high MW levels dissuade employers from hiring people who don't already have skills.
.......

MW jobs rarely require much in the way of "skills". It does not take a lot of skill or training to stock shelves at Walmart. It doesn't take much skill or training to be able to scan barcodes and function as a checkout clerk. Not much skill is needed to sweep floors or return carts from the parking lot. If you will notice almost all of these jobs are physical and handled by younger workers. The seniors get hired as greeters since they cannot do much more.

[MrRational]

Originally Posted by jrkliny

MW jobs rarely require much in the way of "skills".
It does not take a lot of skill or training to stock shelves at Walmart.

Correct. It does not take a lot of skill or training to do ANY of the current MW jobs.
They don't even need to know how to count change back.

The question or logic point is about those who want MORE than such a MW life.
The deeper logic point is about whether society as a whole wants them to support themselves.

So far? That doesn't really seem to be the case.
Our public policies surely don't reflect that expectation.

[SportyandMisty]

Originally Posted by MrRational

That high MW levels dissuade employers from hiring people who don't already have skills.

^^^ This, of course. ^^^

Skilled labor benefits at the expense of unskilled labor -- and this is precisely why labor unions are in favor of increases in the minimum wage. They know employers who previously hired unskilled labor will tend to substitute skilled labor. Employers modify the job responsibilities so that the job can best be done by skilled labor.

[rstevens62]

Originally Posted by MrRational

Correct. It does not take a lot of skill or training to do ANY of the current MW jobs.
They don't even need to know how to count change back.

The question or logic point is about those who want MORE than such a MW life.
The deeper logic point is about whether society as a whole wants them to support themselves.

So far? That doesn't really seem to be the case.
Our public policies surely don't reflect that expectation.

What about the fact that many if not most of these MW workers end up getting Govt assistance in one form or another? the tax paying public SHOULD be more upset about govt basically subsidizing specific industries like this, why does it fall on the taxpayers to make up the difference when those private companies are reaping the benefits from having that person work for so little.

[runswithscissors]

Originally Posted by hitpausebutton2

Just wait they will jack up all the prices to offset any savings that you do make. The bottomess pit workers as they are called will suffer the most again. Its the top heavy business owners who are hording and being greedy.

Unless you're self employed, not sure where you think you're going to get income to live since 80% of the business in America is small business.

[runswithscissors]

Originally Posted by jrkliny

MW jobs rarely require much in the way of "skills". It does not take a lot of skill or training to stock shelves at Walmart. It doesn't take much skill or training to be able to scan barcodes and function as a checkout clerk. Not much skill is needed to sweep floors or return carts from the parking lot. If you will notice almost all of these jobs are physical and handled by younger workers. The seniors get hired as greeters since they cannot do much more.

Where to begin.

That's funny you think all retail jobs are minimum wage. Especially in grocery. And that you conflate an entry level wage as a permanent one with no incremental raises for time in title.

I made $12.00 per hour at Giant grocery chain in 1999 on the overnight shift as the single cashier and managing the front alone. I also did stock in down time.

The guys throwing stock made around 15 - 18 and we all qualified for full benefits. Think that's so easy? You try making your quota with dog food and beverages where you're not permitted to slack off.

MOST Of the best workers were our prison work-release guys who loved doing it as a physical work out.

I assume you've never done any of those jobs. OR shopped in a grocery store in Florida. Or had to deal with the public face to face.

Not only do we have a large number of senior cashiers and baggers but they are required to meet metrics on that conveyor belt efficiently and accurately as is the norm in the entire grocery business. That means you're required to move a certain amount of items in a certain amount of time without a certain amount of errors. Correctly. And the computer spits out your results every single shift and you get to account for it.

Furthermore, they're required to balance their drawers in many chains or be fired for being out of balance. Have you ever been in business with a money drawer? Good luck finding enough reliable workers who won't steal you blind or lose you a ton from stupidity or being incapable of dealing with the public's shenanigans.

And in my experience, the stock personnel in each department who are long term are mature individuals.

I dare you to work in Deli or Meats and then tell us how "easy" and "unskilled" it is. Deli is the worst job in the grocery store. And the most taxing besides stocking the dog food and water/beverage aisle. But I'm sure the butchers think they're "unskilled" even when the public can't figure out what to do with that meat or how to cut it. /sarc

Not to mention the clean-up where you get to lift those very heavy mats from the floor, filthy, drag them out the back to clean and drag back in. Which is part of the Deli function at Giant. And in case you never shopped in the Deli at a grocery store, the workers there are not typically "all younger workers". Most younger workers wouldn't EVER even want that job. No to mention they don't even know anything about FOOD.

It's funny to me that all the people who talk down customer facing workers are the first ones to state how incompetent and rude they are but also claim it's an unskilled job. At any given time, you can find a running thread about that on the internet.

[MrRational]

Originally Posted by rstevens62

What about the fact that many if not most of these MW workers end up getting Govt assistance?

What about it?
Or are you in favor of forcing business to take on a social welfare responsibility?

...when those private companies are reaping the benefits from having that person work for so little.

The ONLY ones continuing to work for so little are those who probably don't even warrant the minimum.
---

But all that aside the issue is STILL an overabundance of the untrained and slack jawed
competing for far too few jobs... NONE of which can really support them (let alone any dependents).

Where did that overabundance come from and what can we do about that going into the future?

[jrkliny]

Originally Posted by runswithscissors

..........
I dare you to work in Deli or Meats and then tell us how "easy" and "unskilled" it is. ........
It's funny to me that all the people who talk down customer facing workers are the first ones to state how incompetent and rude they are but also claim it's an unskilled job.......

I think you are conflating easy and unskilled. They are totally different. Most unskilled jobs are a long way from easy. In fact the opposite is generally true and they are demanding. The reason for that is simple. There is a large supply of unskilled labor. Unskilled is also a relative term. It takes a level of skill and training to be able to run a register or to stock shelves or slice meat in the deli. Some of these jobs can be learned very quickly. Others might take several weeks. I worked in an industry that hired a lot of unskilled workers. The requirement was for a high school degree because reading and simple arithmetic were needed. It could take weeks to develop the needed skills to work without constant supervision and coaching. In the relative scheme of things those skills were still very low level and were paid accordingly.

[redguard57]

I worked for Wal-Mart for 4 years. Every retailer operates similarly.

If Target is doing this, it's because they expect $15 or something close to it to be the "clearinghouse" wage by that point whether they do anything or not. Its better for their administrative efficiency to have a wage schedule that's up to date and reflective of what labor actually costs.

The only true "no skill" jobs that places like Target actually have are the people who collect the carts from the parking lot. Literally every other position in retail requires a bit more than basic day labor. If they need grunt labor they hire a day labor agency.

I started as a cashier $7.25 in 2004 when minimum wage was $5.15. When I quit in 2008 a cashier started at $9.00 or thereabouts; I was making $13 or so as a supervisor.

Walmart sets it wages based on the regional competition. They usually set a target minimum starting rate of about 10-20% below the regional average.

$15 an hour to start a cashier 16 years after I started actually sounds about right actually. It's likely that the cashier position will involve more skill in the future. As self-check machines start to replace the basic standing and scanning part of the job, they'll start to combine cashiers into other jobs.

Minimum wage has been $7.25 for a while now... about 10 years. If we wait 5-10 MORE years, that will be absurdly below modern costs of labor.