U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-03-2008, 01:53 PM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
1,860 posts, read 4,494,712 times
Reputation: 783

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by bxlefty23 View Post

Let me take my 15.2%, just the 13-14% that doesnt go into disability and invest it how I want. I will have so much more money a month from that than I will when the inefficient incompetent buerocratic gov't has waiting for me (if anything) when I am of retirement age
Amen to that, I would let them keep everything they've withheld to this point from me, if they will just let me keep that portion to invest myself going forward the rest of my working years. I can make far more investing the remainder of my life than I would get out of what they've withheld thus far and even if they withheld the rest of my career.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-10-2008, 11:49 AM
 
4 posts, read 7,372 times
Reputation: 10
Default All money is debt

Every form of money actually is a form of debt. Dollars, bank accounts, travelers's checks, money market accounts, T-bills et al, are money and also debt.
When you own debt, you are a creditor. A federal deficit is the federal government's method for adding money to the economy. When the federal government fails to add money to the economy (via deficits), we have recessions or depressions. In fact, every depression in U.S. history came at a time when the federal government removed money from the economy, by running surpluses:

For those who want a balanced budget, here is a history lesson:
1817-1821: U. S. Federal Debt reduced 29%. Depression began 1819.
1823-1836:
U. S. Federal Debt reduced 99%. Depression began 1837.
1852-1857:
U. S. Federal Debt reduced 59%. Depression began 1857.
1867-1873:
U. S. Federal Debt reduced 27%. Depression began 1873.
1880-1893:
U. S. Federal Debt reduced 57%. Depression began 1893.
1920-1930:
U. S. Federal Debt reduced 36%. Depression began 1929.
1998-2001:
U. S. Federal Debt reduced 9%. Recession began 2001


To see further information on this, go to www.rodgermitchell.com
================================================== ==

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky1 View Post
Dollars is US currency, money is what you use to pay for something. In most cases the terms can be used interchangeably until recently. I have also seen a lot of people here talk about "money" and how the US spent money for this and that.

Can we agree that a DEFICIT means we DON'T HAVE MONEY, all we have is credit!!

Okay are you with me here?

Can we also agree that "Devaluation of the dollar" means you get less for what you have when you pay with "dollars"?

So, if your stocks went up 5 percent but the US Dollar Dropped 50 percent, how much did you make?

Okay, got my point?


Now, every times the Government (FED) prints more "Dollars" it dilutes the "Dollars" you and I have in our pocket agreed?

So, since the US has NO MONEY, and we make NO PRODUCTS because we import more then we export. Why would anyone want to accept a US Dollar if it is going to depreciate? If when I was hired at my work 8 years ago and had my salary written in Euros instead of dollars I would be doing a lot better now.. Maybe you see where I am going with this.

So, soon Saudi Arabia will conform to the consensus and require EUROS for Oil. Nobody will take our dollar and even China who has enough of the US Dollars will tell us "YOU PAY ME WITH EURO, YOU PAY ME NOW!". What are we going to do about it? Nothing, nada, daddy's credit card has been declined.

So, you got say 1/2 million of US Dollars in your 401K? You think? What is a dollar anyway?! If your 401K is based on Stocks and stocks are based on dollars, and the companies your mutual fund is investing in is not making a profit, why would anyone want to buy your stock. i.e. stock sinks. So, when the ^&*t hits the fan, you will have no retirement and no 401K money. It is as simple as that.

To fix the problem globally you need to fix it locally. So, better get a grip about what is going on her folks and stop buying things to ease the pain. For example, stop buying luxury items to show off to those you don't even know or like. For example, If you are financing or leasing a luxury car and carry a credit card balance, student loan or other debt you may want to take a step back, reflect on what you are doing and what is really important. AND BUY LOCAL.

So here I am, worked a full-time job for most of my life and put the maximum contribution into my 401K. But now it seems there might not even have enough to retire (since the dollar will be worth nothing) and no SS.

To top it off, eminent domain can take my house at any time and pay me with,.... you guessed it "Dollars" so they can put in a Walmart.

Gasoline? Get ready for $7/gallon friends, not because it is worth more but because what you are using to pay for it is worth less.

"Pay me in Euros, I no longer accept US currency either"
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-10-2008, 12:00 PM
 
4 posts, read 7,372 times
Reputation: 10
Default Printing Money

In arguing against government deficits, you said, ". . . Yea just print print print forever with no boundries . . ."
You make a good point. The Concord Coalition makes similar points in opposition to deficts.
If you would like to read my discussions with the Concord Coalition, constaining both sides of the issue, go to Cure for recession, inflation, stagflation, depression. Solution for Medicare, Social Security reform and the stimulating the economy

================================================== ======


Quote:
Originally Posted by bxlefty23 View Post
you cant actually be serious
take the blinders off- they are ROBBING you blind thru the tax known as INFLATION

Hell why does anyone in this country work- Nanny Government should just print enough money to send everyone 100k at the begining of each year and watch us all profit
LMAO

Do you even have a slight clue how the economy works? Yea just print print print forever with no boundries,there will never be any consequnces at all.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-10-2008, 12:50 PM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 52,343,615 times
Reputation: 24652
The social security system was set up to keep some money available to retirees when their personal savings have been lost to bank failures and stock market collapse. It is an insurance system.

Current or expected loses can be avoided by placing the tax on all income (including earned, capital gains, inheritance, and lottery) regardless of the source and adjusting the rate to cover current beneficiaries. This would remove some of the excess funds floating around the financial system that created the speculative bubble that is currently in the process of bursting.

[SIZE=3] [/SIZE]
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-10-2008, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 52,343,615 times
Reputation: 24652
FWIW - I am not an economist but I have studied natural population dynamics as an environmental scientist. I am just applying these principals to economic situations by considering money to represent the energy flowing in a natural system from the primary producers to the top of the food chain. One of the more interesting observations I have made using this analogy is that eventually the creatures at the very top of the system die and contribute their energy in the form of fertilizer to the plants that convert sunlight to useable food. In economic terms this could be anomalous to bank failures contributing by having the loans they hold canceled along with the debts they owe.
[SIZE=3] [/SIZE]
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-11-2008, 12:31 AM
 
1,566 posts, read 2,820,787 times
Reputation: 1262
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
The social security system was set up to keep some money available to retirees when their personal savings have been lost to bank failures and stock market collapse. It is an insurance system.

Current or expected loses can be avoided by placing the tax on all income (including earned, capital gains, inheritance, and lottery) regardless of the source and adjusting the rate to cover current beneficiaries. This would remove some of the excess funds floating around the financial system that created the speculative bubble that is currently in the process of bursting.

[SIZE=3] [/SIZE]

it is not insurance and neither is the fdic for that matter
they are both scams
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-03-2010, 09:51 AM
 
8,539 posts, read 7,683,325 times
Reputation: 6959
the problem with the FDIC is the costs are levied against the depositors when the losses are coming from investing and lending activities. the insurance cost is being borne by the wrong parties. savers are being fleeced to subsidize the high debt economy. on a macro level, the same is occurring with social security.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-03-2010, 06:40 PM
 
4,010 posts, read 9,059,782 times
Reputation: 1590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodger Malcolm Mitchell View Post
Every form of money actually is a form of debt. Dollars, bank accounts, travelers's checks, money market accounts, T-bills et al, are money and also debt.
When you own debt, you are a creditor. A federal deficit is the federal government's method for adding money to the economy. When the federal government fails to add money to the economy (via deficits), we have recessions or depressions. In fact, every depression in U.S. history came at a time when the federal government removed money from the economy, by running surpluses:

For those who want a balanced budget, here is a history lesson:
1817-1821: U. S. Federal Debt reduced 29%. Depression began 1819.
1823-1836:
U. S. Federal Debt reduced 99%. Depression began 1837.
1852-1857:
U. S. Federal Debt reduced 59%. Depression began 1857.
1867-1873:
U. S. Federal Debt reduced 27%. Depression began 1873.
1880-1893:
U. S. Federal Debt reduced 57%. Depression began 1893.
1920-1930:
U. S. Federal Debt reduced 36%. Depression began 1929.
1998-2001:
U. S. Federal Debt reduced 9%. Recession began 2001


To see further information on this, go to www.rodgermitchell.com
================================================== ==
You are offering up someone's opinion from a book where you can't verify what is said unless you buy his book, as fact. The reality of the situation is the USA could not take on debt as we know it today until it created the Federal Reserve in 1914 and we went onto a fiat money system. (not fully established until 1971). 97% of all debt this country has was run up in only the last 36 years. Prior to that there were always some sort of limit including constitutional ones, that made it impossible.

Also prior to the 1930s, where there is a fundamental error in your statement, "every form of money is debt", is incorrect. Gold and Silver coins and certificates are not debt based.

For most of the USA's history, money was either gold or silver coinage or certificates that reflected those coins. Gold and Silver are absolutely not debt based money, they are asset based money. In other words they are not a liability of any government. The big exception to this was during the Civil War when both sides printed IOUs as $s in order to fund war operations. People generally did not trust them and stuck to their gold and siver coins. Gold and silver are what is known as "lawful money" as specified by the Constitution as opposed to "legal tender" which is specified by legislation.

If the book is saying this, then it is junk. The other conclusions is making simply don't hold up with the history of money in this country.

This was not a debt based bill.


Last edited by lumbollo; 02-03-2010 at 06:50 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-04-2010, 05:56 AM
 
681 posts, read 1,045,794 times
Reputation: 759
Not supposed to scan a full bill, someone other than the government might print a copy.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-04-2010, 07:40 AM
 
4,010 posts, read 9,059,782 times
Reputation: 1590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky1 View Post
Not supposed to scan a full bill, someone other than the government might print a copy.
Well aside from being completely wrong in this notion, were you actually paying attention to the post? Did you pay attention to what this is and why I posted it? They don't make these any more and anyone attempting to show up with a bunch of 1934 $5 Silver Certificates just freshly printed is going to draw a lot of attention. Not something, I would assume, that most counterfeiters would want. What happened to common sense in this country?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2020, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top