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Old 07-22-2018, 07:46 PM
 
Location: Guadalajara, MX
8,129 posts, read 3,890,080 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
This is because many of the (Euro and other) companies that set up factories here actually care about a decent wage, decent working condition and human beings.
Have you actually worked for a Euro corp? Why would a company, who's mission is to make money, care about people more in one country than another? Answer = they don't. They are responding to market conditions and regulations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
the entire reason many of these companies come here is that they understand America is the new Bangledesh.
Obvious next question = have you ever been to Bangladesh? I'm guessing no. If you had you've understand how utterly retarded it is to compare it with America.

Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
Despite the rhetoric thrown around in our country
Irony.
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Old 07-22-2018, 09:44 PM
 
Location: Ohio
22,446 posts, read 15,702,564 times
Reputation: 18946
Quote:
Originally Posted by psikeyhackr View Post
Have you ever noticed how automobiles wear out? Isn't the value of that called DEPRECIATION?

When was the last time you heard an economist talk about how much American consumers lose on the depreciation of automobiles every year? Hertz can file that depreciation with the IRS because those cars are Capital Goods. But the Laws of Physics do not care about the IRS or the Economy.

There were 200,000,000 cars in the US in 1994. If the average annual depreciation was $1,500 per car that would amount to $300,000,000,000 in total depreciation just for cars. What about refrigerators, air conditioners, TVs and microwave ovens.

That is the funny thing about Expertism. Experts can dazzle us with the complicated stuff they do talk about, but if there is any important information that they leave out then most people never notice. So we buy more consumer junk and it gets added to GDP. That is economic growth. The junk gets thrown away and is never subtracted.

Oh yeah, and the junk was purchased with credit cards so the interest was part of GDP.

Economic Wargames: How the economic model is unsustainable and enslaving.

One PhD economist said it was correct and that the textbooks were wrong. Most ignore it. It is nothing but 8th grade algebra.

Wannabe an Economist?

I have a higher opinion of 19th century slave owners than I do of 21st century economists.

The fatal flaw in their argument is this:

This equation defines the Net National Product (NNP). It is equated to Gross National Product (GNP) minus Depreciation of CAPital goods (Dcap). The trouble with this equation is that depreciation of durable consumer goods is missing.

Apparently the idiot cannot understand the difference between Capital Goods and Durable Goods.

Capital Goods are used in the means of production, while Durable Goods are not.

We'll wait while you attempt to explain how a dishwasher is used to produce goods for commercial or consumer consumption, or provide a service to commercial or consumer clients.
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Old 07-22-2018, 10:34 PM
 
1,013 posts, read 605,681 times
Reputation: 1791
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Corporate buy backs are nothing new.
So, would you prefer foreign corporations and corporate raiders like KKR and Bain Capital buy up stocks and shut companies down, resulting in thousands of employed workers?
What I prefer is a strong US Dollar. A strong dollar makes it easier for the holders of dollars to buy out foreign companies.

And again, corporate buybacks are a form of cheating. Here is how all this works. Let's say XYZ company had net income or net earnings of $17 billion for the year 2017. XYZ had 8,330,000,000 outstanding shares. If we divide the earnings by the number of shares we get Earnings Per Share (which is different than simply earnings, and this difference allows a lot of manipulation).

$17,000,000,000 divided by 8,330,000,000 equals 2.04 EPS.

Then XYZ experiences a bad quarter and has revenues decline by $1,000,000,000. It's not the end of the world but the EPS declines from 2.04 to 1.92. This is about a 6% decline. If the headline reads: "XYZ earnings decline 6%" - investors might notice this. So, companies can trick investors by buying back shares. If you don't improve the earning side of the equation, you improve the shares side of the equation -while you also take on more debt as a company. In fact, these are two negatives, that seem like a positive.

Let's say the company in question declines in revenues by the agreed-upon $1,000,000,000 but buys back a billion shares. Suddenly, the company is not reporting a negative quarter, the actual loss of $1billion in sales, but they report EPS surged from $2.04 to $2.18. Investors don't even notice that sales are going down. Earning (per share) are up a whoppiing 14%.

Of course, it cost this imaginary company a lot of money to buy back these 1 billion shares, but the company just issues more debt and sells it to pension funds and mutual funds and hedge funds - and if the stock market tanks, of course, it will primarily be these funds (and retired investors) who take the loss. How can this even be legal? This is criminal!!!
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Old 07-29-2018, 06:36 PM
 
83,481 posts, read 80,976,845 times
Reputation: 59479
Quote:
Originally Posted by C2BP View Post
What I prefer is a strong US Dollar. A strong dollar makes it easier for the holders of dollars to buy out foreign companies.

And again, corporate buybacks are a form of cheating. Here is how all this works. Let's say XYZ company had net income or net earnings of $17 billion for the year 2017. XYZ had 8,330,000,000 outstanding shares. If we divide the earnings by the number of shares we get Earnings Per Share (which is different than simply earnings, and this difference allows a lot of manipulation).

$17,000,000,000 divided by 8,330,000,000 equals 2.04 EPS.

Then XYZ experiences a bad quarter and has revenues decline by $1,000,000,000. It's not the end of the world but the EPS declines from 2.04 to 1.92. This is about a 6% decline. If the headline reads: "XYZ earnings decline 6%" - investors might notice this. So, companies can trick investors by buying back shares. If you don't improve the earning side of the equation, you improve the shares side of the equation -while you also take on more debt as a company. In fact, these are two negatives, that seem like a positive.

Let's say the company in question declines in revenues by the agreed-upon $1,000,000,000 but buys back a billion shares. Suddenly, the company is not reporting a negative quarter, the actual loss of $1billion in sales, but they report EPS surged from $2.04 to $2.18. Investors don't even notice that sales are going down. Earning (per share) are up a whoppiing 14%.

Of course, it cost this imaginary company a lot of money to buy back these 1 billion shares, but the company just issues more debt and sells it to pension funds and mutual funds and hedge funds - and if the stock market tanks, of course, it will primarily be these funds (and retired investors) who take the loss. How can this even be legal? This is criminal!!!
Nonsense. ...
Wall Street always reports revenue and earnings so your argument is flawed

Last edited by mathjak107; 07-29-2018 at 06:55 PM..
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Old 07-30-2018, 04:41 AM
 
7,667 posts, read 3,736,553 times
Reputation: 4968
Quote:
Originally Posted by C2BP View Post
Yes, our economy has been dead since 2001 and we used debt or money stolen from the future to simulate economic growth. Our economy couldn't grow organicaly since 2001 so we faked economic growth with debt spending and now we are the most indebted country that ever existed in the world. We are totally broke as a nation, debt junkies addicted to debt.

We created illusion of growth with money stolen from the future, from our kids and grandkids. We destroyed our kids and grandkids future to protect status quo, to protect old world that died in 2001. We are stil protecting the old world, the old debt that we should be destroying since 2001. Fed criminals used insane policies like QE and Zirp to create biggest bubble in assets (stocks and real estate). For 17 years now you all have been manipulated by the Fed and our corrupt Government. Since then, since 2001 the biggest shysters and thieves, speculative people with criminal minds have become winners in our society and responsible people, savers have become losers and victims of insane Fed policies.

Three basic things in life = shelter, education and healthcare became unaffordable for most Americans. Our housing market turned into a casino game, American homes are investments now used for trading and rent scheme. We have real estate offices open in Hong Kong and other Chinese cities advertising our homes, American homes to foreign nationals. Our fellow citizens are priced out from buying a house and forming a family and competing with various world wide speculators and shysters. We desperately need a law like it was passed in New Zealand prohibiting foreigners to buy American homes. We need to end speculations in Real Estate. NAR (national association of realtors) needs to be dismantled and top people charged with crimes + treason.

It's easy to end this madness since 2001. All you have to do is keep raising interest rates and make our dollar, our currency stronger. Strong dollar will end all speculations, will force speculators to exit and liquidate all their assets, will free housing inventory. Strong dollar will pop this bubble, will end this madness, will end this fake economy created with debt. Yes, we all will feel some massive pain and suffering but after that we can build our new real economic growth. You all have been played by the Fed. Our economy has been dead since 2001. Everything is a lie today, illusion!!!

Our economy can't grow normaly again until we allow deflation and depression to do its job and until we destroy all bad debt that our Fed is protecting with low interest rates. We need much higher interest rates and then you will see house prices and rents cut in half or more, healthcare and education cut in half and more, gas prices and everything else cut in half or more.

Wake up people, you all have been played since 2001!!!!
How? The only way I see out is a stateless entity or terrorist organization poping off a 50-100 mega ton nukes in manhatten and another simultaniously in DC. There will be no one to retaliate against just a bunch of dead elites.
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Old 07-30-2018, 04:43 AM
 
7,667 posts, read 3,736,553 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
Very high interest rates without onerous inflation is madness. But I do like the idea of just sitting on my butt getting 13% return with MMF's again. lol
Or you could invent cold fusion in your shop instead of toiling in a modern day sweat shop. Or smoke weed and play video games.
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Old 07-30-2018, 04:46 AM
 
7,667 posts, read 3,736,553 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Actually, that honor belongs to the Ottoman Empire.



It won't happen. An increase in interest rates does not result in a reduction in prices.
Yes it does because it reduces the amount someone can qualify for and thus FAR less bid wars. Buyers can then afford to offer low ball prices and sellers wont have a line of people bidding properties up with borrowed money they have no buisness having in the first place.

Only people who have real money in the bank (20+% down) will be able to endure the higher interest rates.

Some sellers will obsentently hold out, holding out on the dream of a massive pay out so they can retire in the caribian and be on some home buying show. But given enough time the market will correct.
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Old 07-30-2018, 04:47 AM
 
83,481 posts, read 80,976,845 times
Reputation: 59479
No it does not. Just about all real estate bubbles were at interest rates over 6%. My first investment property was in the 1987 . Prices were soaring and I was thrilled to get an 8-1/4% mortgage.

Location and supply determine prices along with the general health of the local economy.

Rates do not really play a large role until they get pretty high
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Old 07-30-2018, 04:54 AM
 
7,667 posts, read 3,736,553 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cebuan View Post
Not really.

What has changed is that our expectations of those things has outstripped our ability to pay for them. A family can still afford to live in the kind of a house that I grew up in. In the mid-to-late 1900s, most jobs could be learned on the job, without the "need" for a college or even trade school education. When people got sick then, doctors could eyeball the diagnosis, and patients toughed it out until they got well.

We now have the expectation that our masters degree in hospitality services will afford us a full three-car-garage, and live to be 100 without an ache or a pain. Not to mention a family entertainment and information budget that exceeds the food budget, which in the USA is ridiculously low compared to nearly every other country.
Not really, my goal is to outlive my wife and retire into a wet cabin (wet as in running water as I need to shower) and smoke weed and live off of dividends and when I die I die.

The issue today is the cost of the raw land in areas where there are GOOD jobs is out of sight. In order to build up that principal in order to draw those dividends you have to live in exorbitantly high cost of living areas or at the very least higher cost of living areas. You could live out of a van and work .... but you probably want to get laid/married/have kids? Will the wife want to live out of a van with you and then go smoke weed in a wet cabin in Alaska .... probably not.

And here in lies the conundrum ....
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Old 07-30-2018, 05:00 AM
 
7,667 posts, read 3,736,553 times
Reputation: 4968
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
No it does not. Just about all real estate bubbles were at interest rates over 6%. My first investment property was in the 1987 . Prices were soaring and I was thrilled to get an 8-1/4% mortgage.

Location and supply determine prices along with the general health of the local economy.

Rates do not really play a large role until they get pretty high
Yea but thats what we are talking about, high rates, not this quarter of a percent nonsense. I thought we were talking about 10+% interest rates. Interest rates that high will temper demand and what people qualify for.

But I agree swings of a quarter of a point and other penny anty amounts wont effect it. It has to be real rate changes to modify behavior. Just like gas prices, no one is going to modify their behaior much due to a a quarter increase or even a buck ... but 7-8$ gal gas you better believe 99% of people will be significantly modifying behavior. People driving giant douche mobiles will drop like a rock.
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