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Old 11-19-2019, 08:22 PM
 
1,466 posts, read 764,632 times
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SkyDog77 & MathJak107, do you two intend to only consider and respond to posts that are entirely in agreement with your opinions? Otherwise, it’s unreasonable not to expect others may disagree with what you consider as certainly logical and correct arguments.

In response to your posts #69 & 70,
refer to: https://itchyfish.com/phrase-origins...f-the-kitchen/ .

Respectfully, Supposn
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Old 11-19-2019, 08:29 PM
 
Location: Washington Park, Denver
7,550 posts, read 7,037,626 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
SkyDog77, your assumption of what you believe is my premise, Is not quite correct.

Whenever USA experienced an annual trade deficit, had we imported less, we could have had the same GDP with lesser spending and greater savings, or had a greater GDP if we purchased less imports and more domestic products.
I am not an isolationist or opposed to global trade. Respectfully, Supposn
No. You can’t just import less in a vacuum without other impacts on the economy. I tried to walk you through the model in my previous post, but I don’t think I did an adequate job explaining this to you. It’s not simple stuff. You really need to take an economics class. Start with Khan Academy. Learn about the IS/LM Model. I’m not going to argue with you anymore because you don’t grasp the concepts necessary to have an intelligent discussion on this subject.


In the Y = C+I+G+NX equation, you don’t just get to add to NX without other effects. As I explained, your tariff will either subtract from NX due to currency fluctuations, or subtract from Y because of economic inefficiency caused by the tariff. It will also create uncertainty and subtract from I.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
SkyDog77 & MathJak107, do you two intend to only consider and respond to posts that are entirely in agreement with your opinions? Otherwise, it’s unreasonable not to expect others may disagree with what you consider as certainly logical and correct arguments.

In response to your posts #69 & 70,
refer to: https://itchyfish.com/phrase-origins...f-the-kitchen/ .

Respectfully, Supposn
You have provided no economic argument to counter what I posted. Take an economics class. You don’t understand what you are talking about.

I know it’s tempting to latch on to a theory you read about on the internet, but you really should study the entire subject at a college level if you are interested in it.

Last edited by SkyDog77; 11-19-2019 at 09:27 PM..
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Old 11-19-2019, 09:51 PM
 
1,466 posts, read 764,632 times
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SkyDog77, the topic of this thread is “A trade deficit indicates the nation consumed more than it produced”. Import Certificates are a proposed remedy to USA’s chronic annual trade deficits of goods. There’s no point to discussing Import Certificate policy within this thread where some are arguing USA’s chronic annual trade deficits have not been or will be net detrimental to our economy.

You consider Import Certificate policy as only another species of tariffs? I won’t quibble regarding your point. But due to differences between Import Certificates and all other international trade policies, both the consequences and/or extents of consequences between import certificate and those other trade policies, (including tariff policies), substantially differ.

I’ll defend the concepts of Import certificates against all other existing or proposed USA policies for our international trade within the thread “Comparisons between tariffs and Import Certificate policy”. But your inability to recognize the differences between import Certificates and all other policies for international trade, will not impel me to defend any other but Import certificate policies.

Respectfully, Supposn

Last edited by Supposn; 11-19-2019 at 10:10 PM..
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Old 11-19-2019, 10:34 PM
 
Location: Washington Park, Denver
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Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
, both the consequences and/or extents of consequences between import certificate and those other trade policies, (including tariff policies), substantially differ.
In terms of their effect on both the movement of the IS Curve and Long Range Aggregate Supply, how do they differ? Why do they not impact these the same way other tariffs do? What properties do they have that offset the impacts other tariffs have?
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Old 11-20-2019, 11:27 AM
 
1,466 posts, read 764,632 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyDog77 View Post
In terms of their effect on both the movement of the IS Curve and Long Range Aggregate Supply, how do they differ? Why do they not impact these the same way other tariffs do? What properties do they have that offset the impacts other tariffs have?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
SkyDog77, the topic of this thread is “A trade deficit indicates the nation consumed more than it produced”. Import Certificates are a proposed remedy to USA’s chronic annual trade deficits of goods. There’s no point to discussing Import Certificate policy within this thread where some are arguing USA’s chronic annual trade deficits have not been or will be net detrimental to our economy.

You consider Import Certificate policy as only another species of tariffs? I won’t quibble regarding your point. But due to differences between Import Certificates and all other international trade policies, both the consequences and/or extents of consequences between import certificate and those other trade policies, (including tariff policies), substantially differ.

I’ll defend the concepts of Import certificates against all other existing or proposed USA policies for our international trade within the thread “Comparisons between tariffs and Import Certificate policy”. But your inability to recognize the differences between import Certificates and all other policies for international trade, will not impel me to defend any other but Import certificate policies.
Respectfully, Supposn
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Old 11-20-2019, 11:38 AM
 
Location: Washington Park, Denver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
Respectfully, Supposn
In other words, you don’t know. Got it.
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Old 11-20-2019, 11:59 AM
 
1,466 posts, read 764,632 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyDog77 View Post
In other words, you don’t know. Got it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
SkyDog77, apparently, neither one us knows what you’re referring to. ...
Respectfully, Supposn

Last edited by Supposn; 11-20-2019 at 12:13 PM..
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Old 12-09-2019, 05:01 PM
 
Location: Washington Park, Denver
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I like this explanation from Wharton’s Dean, Geoffrey Garrett, on why you’re not thinking about trade deficits the right way. Fast forward to 2:00 if you don’t care about the other stuff.

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/garre...414465024-bvcy
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Old 12-26-2019, 01:06 PM
 
1,466 posts, read 764,632 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyDog77 View Post
I like this explanation from Wharton’s Dean, Geoffrey Garrett, on why you’re not thinking about trade deficits the right way. Fast forward to 2:00 if you don’t care about the other stuff.

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/garre...414465024-bvcy
SkyDog77, within your provided link, Geoffrey Garrett loosely uses the term of “USA corporations”.
USA’s chronic annual trade deficits are net detrimental to our numbers of jobs and amounts of patrols. Products’ “nationalities” from USA’s points of views are determined by the proportions of costs or prices contributing to their costs or prices to USA users or purchasers or users.
Toyota assembly plants are no less American than are Ford plants which are also located in the USA. The product’s brand labels are not the issues.

Regardless of Geoffrey Garrett statements, for any given amount of USA annual net spending for goods and service products, our gross domestic product would have been greater if our trade deficit had been less, or our GDP would have been the same if more of our resources were devoted to savings and investments rather than purchasing foreign products.

Respectfully, Supposn
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Old 12-30-2019, 02:21 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyDog77 View Post
I spent some time reading about this concept you posted. You can't tell me that you are against tariffs. This is a tariff. It makes it more expensive to purchase goods from outside the country. The wikipedia page even calls it a form of tariff. Either you don't understand tariffs or you're being dishonest.

The vast majority of macro-economists do not believe that trade deficits are detrimental to GDP.

Yes, GDP=Consumption + Investment + Government Spending + Net Exports (Y=C+I+G+NE), but when you implement a tariff - and make no mistake what you are proposing is a tariff - you do not boost output. Several things happen when you implement a tariff:...
SkyDog77, I won’t argue with anyone that wishes to consider the Import Certificates as a species of tariff policy. But the improved species as described within Wikipedia’s “Import Certificates” article would be enacted and have consequences that significantly differ from any tariff policies that are or have ever been practiced.

Under a USA Import Certificate policy, increase of prices to USA purchasers of imported products, and the price subsidy of USA exports are market, rather than government determined. The minimum sustainable increase of prices to USA purchasers of imports would be due to the federal import Certificate fees that exporters of USA goods will choose to pay. That fee rate is by law set an annually modified to only defray federal direct Import certificate administration expenses. Import Certificate policy is by law, not a source of net tax revenue.

I’ll only discuss objections related to the species of Import Certificate policy described in Wikipedia’s article. Respectfully, Supposn
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