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Old 12-14-2019, 10:48 AM
 
4,198 posts, read 3,415,492 times
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Seems like the best route to take would be to invest your savings into the companies you're talking about who are raising prices. If you can't beat em, join em. Steady small deposits compounding over long periods have a way of turning into significant amounts. Just own them and keep complaining about their prices while they make you money.
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Old 12-14-2019, 11:08 AM
 
19,755 posts, read 14,379,026 times
Reputation: 15219
Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee View Post
I don't understand why some people bring stock market into this. Are you bonafide leech class living off family trusts and such? A working stiff by definition lives off selling his butt to live a day. A working stiff cannot invest much and whatever crumbles he can invest is locked up in pension funds he cannot touch. And it is a big IF he will withdraw a meager windfall at a market peak. Absolute majority of wage earners live off cash flow their wage jobs generate. If prices grow faster than a paycheck something will have to be sacrificed. Most likely modest investment budget will be scaled down first.
Do you have short term memory issues? The below is in fact your own commentary. It’s also appropriate to discuss investing in the stock market when you are speaking about “investments” as the stock market is the easiest and most practical way to invest, especially compared to investing in physical lumber

Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee View Post
Show me stocks or better yet salaries growing like that.
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Old 12-23-2019, 07:53 PM
 
226 posts, read 95,180 times
Reputation: 449
And this thread should be part of the Escaping Poverty Requires Almost 20 Years With Nearly Nothing Going Wrong Thread.



It's never their fault, it' is always the evil [fill in the blank].


I don't think OP is telling the full story, let alone a true story.
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Old 12-26-2019, 08:43 AM
 
5,445 posts, read 5,274,650 times
Reputation: 6555
Quote:
Originally Posted by insulator_king View Post
And this thread should be part of the Escaping Poverty Requires Almost 20 Years With Nearly Nothing Going Wrong Thread.



It's never their fault, it' is always the evil [fill in the blank].


I don't think OP is telling the full story, let alone a true story.
Damn. I point at a few prices at different times showing way above average inflation and all I get amateur psychics, shrinks and personal advisors scrambling to protect their bubble. What's your deal? You are absolutely correct, for an average person to maintain his delusion of financial security everything in his life should flow smoothly with nothing going wrong. Once an average American leaves the realm of sweat shop goods and frankenstein foods to meet doctor, lawyers, family courts, mechanics, tradesmen, educators, landlords, home aids and assistance living, etc., etc. all the delusions of wellbeing evaporate really fast. It is just that slowly but surely the pacifier of colonial goods&foods etc. is getting more expensive also but if you are determined to feel good there are plenty of uplifting bootstrapping posts on cd. If you read long enough you will enter a parallel universe.

P.S. To add insult to injury I got a bill for $354, paid it, and then usps delivered late an invoice for $328 which was sent first. In just 24 hours the magic of market created $26 of extra value.
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Old 12-26-2019, 09:42 AM
 
8,551 posts, read 7,691,671 times
Reputation: 6962
Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee View Post
So it's been 7.5 years since I had a sizable home improvement project. I still have well aged lumber left overs sitting in my garage. So finally I felt it is time to do something with it, so to the big box I went. After generally avoiding the place (Lowes) for all those years substantially higher prices just jump at you. Lumber prices doubled in 8 years, branded tools prices doubled or more, the rest Items I checked had less dramatic yet substantial price increases. There is no building boom of any kind in the area. 2 new homes were built within 20 miles radius of my home in the past 8 years.

For comparison my 401k still did not recover its value from December 2017. Bank interest rates are approaching zero at my local bank. So that pile of perfectly aged lumber that doubled its value in 7.5 years is most definitely the best investment of my life time. How could that happen? All I've heard in the past decade that inflation is somewhere between 0 and 2%, maybe 3% at most.

Going back to Trump economic "boom". Yep, local papers and craigslist are booming with ads for the jobs paying $12-16/hr, before the boom those jobs paid maybe $11-$15/hr. At the lower end wages are pretty much stagnant boom or no boom. Stagnant wages, doubling prices, something has to give. And yet "boom" is "booming". Perhaps people higher up the food chain do much better. Something must be booming. One more boom like this and a good chunk of population will pretty much catch up with Chinese sweat shop workers.
There's been a remodeling boom. The bubble raised the standards for maintaining and upgrading homes. In addition to the buyers, the HOAs are requiring more expensive maintenance. Contractors are very expensive. Unskilled work is around $500 a day. It's 95 dollars an hour if you have very small jobs. A lot of contractors have no interest in jobs under $3k. I've been involved with demolition and remodeling of two homes.

I know a couple of people that have used cheap day laborers for work. The work has been of very poor qualify. Paint and wood thrown into my yard. Concrete and extra lumber were left on the grass across the street. They've paid the price later on when they sell since the home had to be discounted by 25 percent even after a full remodel.

I don't know where people on these forums get these stupid numbers for labor rates, but they seem to be aimed at supporting a political agenda.
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Old 12-26-2019, 10:05 AM
 
5,445 posts, read 5,274,650 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lchoro View Post
There's been a remodeling boom. The bubble raised the standards for maintaining and upgrading homes. In addition to the buyers, the HOAs are requiring more expensive maintenance. Contractors are very expensive. Unskilled work is around $500 a day. It's 95 dollars an hour if you have very small jobs. A lot of contractors have no interest in jobs under $3k. I've been involved with demolition and remodeling of two homes.

I know a couple of people that have used cheap day laborers for work. The work has been of very poor qualify. Paint and wood thrown into my yard. Concrete and extra lumber were left on the grass across the street. They've paid the price later on when they sell since the home had to be discounted by 25 percent even after a full remodel.

I don't know where people on these forums get these stupid numbers for labor rates, but they seem to be aimed at supporting a political agenda.
I yet to see a construction laborer living high on the hog instead of counting his pains, aches and broken bones. One could think that at $500/day I should see a couple who left the trade in one piece and moderately wealthy. You live in an upper middle class bubble, most of us do not live there and hiring a contractor for us is a personal crisis not unlike a highway robbery. Labor cannot higher labor at 5x + markup. Impossible.
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Old 12-30-2019, 04:49 AM
 
Location: Moku Nui, Hawaii
10,079 posts, read 19,454,258 times
Reputation: 9189
Yeah, the prices have gone nuts and the quality has dropped through the bottom. We just started a major rehab/reno of an extreme fixer we picked up last July. This is the first time in about a decade we've gone to buy materials in quantities that matter and other than sticker shock, there's stuff that just isn't there anymore (that old looks like tile board stuff for bath and shower walls) and the quality of the stuff that is there is just dismal.


I suspect a lot of it may be increased demand to rebuild places wrecked by storms, floods and fires. On our island, we lost about 700-800 houses from lava last year. Things are pretty busy around here, contractors won't even give bids on projects unless they either get paid to give a bid or are guaranteed to be given the bid. How crazy is that?
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Old 12-31-2019, 01:23 AM
 
27,053 posts, read 29,493,871 times
Reputation: 26410
Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee View Post
I don't understand why some people bring stock market into this. Are you bonafide leech class living off family trusts and such? A working stiff by definition lives off selling his butt to live a day. A working stiff cannot invest much and whatever crumbles he can invest is locked up in pension funds he cannot touch. And it is a big IF he will withdraw a meager windfall at a market peak. Absolute majority of wage earners live off cash flow their wage jobs generate. If prices grow faster than a paycheck something will have to be sacrificed. Most likely modest investment budget will be scaled down first.
I'm a working stiff in my late 40s. I earn a mid 5 figure salary in a high cost of living area.

I have retirement account balances that are more than 9X my gross salary.

Of course, whenever I prove people wrong I always get the same few variations of these responses (if I get one at all):

--You're lying.
--You're bragging.
--You're a loser/don't have a life/have been eating cardboard for the last 20 years.

Oh, and the S&P 500 is up over 30% this year. And I see you've moved the goalposts again talking about "services inflation". Keep changing that story to make it fit!
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Old 12-31-2019, 05:44 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
14,152 posts, read 4,840,488 times
Reputation: 11222
Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee View Post
So it's been 7.5 years since I had a sizable home improvement project. I still have well aged lumber left overs sitting in my garage. So finally I felt it is time to do something with it, so to the big box I went. After generally avoiding the place (Lowes) for all those years substantially higher prices just jump at you. Lumber prices doubled in 8 years, branded tools prices doubled or more, the rest Items I checked had less dramatic yet substantial price increases. There is no building boom of any kind in the area. 2 new homes were built within 20 miles radius of my home in the past 8 years.

For comparison my 401k still did not recover its value from December 2017. Bank interest rates are approaching zero at my local bank. So that pile of perfectly aged lumber that doubled its value in 7.5 years is most definitely the best investment of my life time. How could that happen? All I've heard in the past decade that inflation is somewhere between 0 and 2%, maybe 3% at most.

Going back to Trump economic "boom". Yep, local papers and craigslist are booming with ads for the jobs paying $12-16/hr, before the boom those jobs paid maybe $11-$15/hr. At the lower end wages are pretty much stagnant boom or no boom. Stagnant wages, doubling prices, something has to give. And yet "boom" is "booming". Perhaps people higher up the food chain do much better. Something must be booming. One more boom like this and a good chunk of population will pretty much catch up with Chinese sweat shop workers.
Well, you have touched on a number of issues -- good posting by the way. The rich have done very well, not only under Trump but under Obama as well. Wages are being kept down partially by the flood of illegal immigrants willing to work for enough money to put food on the table. Who gets squeezed? That's right - the middle class people here legally. And to compound the problems, the cost of day care, college, and health insurance has skyrocketed.

Meanwhile Home Depot stock has more than doubled in the past 5 years, it was sitting at $104 back on 1/1/15. Lowes stock was sitting at $68 back on the same day so while it hasn't doubled, it's done well.
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Old 12-31-2019, 10:20 AM
 
8,551 posts, read 7,691,671 times
Reputation: 6962
Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee View Post
I yet to see a construction laborer living high on the hog instead of counting his pains, aches and broken bones. One could think that at $500/day I should see a couple who left the trade in one piece and moderately wealthy. You live in an upper middle class bubble, most of us do not live there and hiring a contractor for us is a personal crisis not unlike a highway robbery. Labor cannot higher labor at 5x + markup. Impossible.
You have to remember that exterior contractors can work only when exterior conditions permit. The higher labor rates are an adjustment for the downtime. It's also a blended rate where the owner of the business gets a cut and the employees gets a somewhat lower labor rate. Some contractors can work both inside and outside jobs, but you take the risk that they're doing jobs where they are less skilled or under-equipped. Large contractors are considerably more expensive than what I've quoted. It cost about 2.5 times for a demolition than what it cost me when I personally oversaw the different subs.

Last edited by lchoro; 12-31-2019 at 10:31 AM..
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