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Old 04-10-2019, 02:01 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,029 posts, read 14,226,529 times
Reputation: 16757

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Way back when, Americans had Creator endowed rights that governments were instituted to secure, and only govern those who consent.

That got tossed by 1820, and the grand experiment with democracy and submission to the gubmint.
By 1933, the gubmint went bankrupt, stole all the lawful money and became a socialist paradise under St. FDR.

Thanks to the glorious socialist system, surplus was taken away. Curiously, surplus declined. As more and more "takers" were voting themselves a living, the "givers" were going slowly broke. All that's left is to share poverty.
It won't end well.
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Old 04-10-2019, 03:48 AM
 
Location: Spain
12,722 posts, read 7,587,400 times
Reputation: 22639
I'll take hyperbole for 800 Alex.
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Old 04-10-2019, 05:58 AM
 
Location: North West Arkansas (zone 6b)
2,776 posts, read 3,252,915 times
Reputation: 3913
I feel like what we're all noticing is a failure in free market economics. When all the players in a free system do what they want, everybody chases the money. Manufacturers make the nicer, higher profit items like cars and homes causing a shortage in the lower price points which pushes the prices up at the bottom.

Contrary to what conservatives will have you believe, many of the lower income folks are unable to work towards the higher paying jobs, instead of unwilling to go after them. Student loan pressure and the cost of education are putting a drag on the economy.

This may not be all bad, the trucker shortage is causing companies to pay more for drivers which doesn't require a college education. Same for trade jobs. who knew that Walmart is paying $90k a year for truck drivers?

College has been pushed as a minimum requirement for so long that people blindly assume it's a requirement.
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Old 04-10-2019, 06:41 AM
 
2,176 posts, read 1,327,359 times
Reputation: 5574
Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post

But something else is going on too. ...

I've seen a big change in people now thinking that success=money instead of success=being happy or helping others, or making the world a better place. Everything is money now. Compete, climb all over everyone else, destroy the planet. Survival of the fittest--and who cares about anyone else.

In other words, it's all about capitalism gone too far and out of control. Capitalism needs to be balanced with some degree of help for those who are less able/less fortunate/less lucky. Otherwise you get a vast chasm between rich and poor--and the poor will eventually revolt.

Dickensian means inequality among social classes and that's what we have regressed to in this country.
Don’t kill the messenger but we are experiencing what so much maligned K Marx described in his work “Das Kapital” in 1848 and Lenin in “ Imperialism as the last stage of capitalism” in 1916.
Both are very complex economic studies - capitalism came on stage in Britain in late 17 century- so 2 centuries later In the 19 century Marx had enough data for his analysis.
What is going on now worldwide is textbook examples of what they were saying all along.
I went to a lecture and was introduced to this video
It is interesting to hear this guy-PhD in economics who calls himself “ Marxian “ economist.
He is not. He simplifies Marxism so much to smooth out the sharpest criticism, but it is a start.
https://youtu.be/qT1JAzhywfA

Last edited by Nik4me; 04-10-2019 at 06:50 AM..
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Old 04-10-2019, 06:57 AM
 
5,907 posts, read 4,437,936 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nik4me View Post
Don’t kill the messenger but we are experiencing what so much maligned K Marx described in his work “Das Kapital†in 1848 and Lenin in “ Imperialism as the last stage of capitalism†in 1916.
Both are very complex economic studies - capitalism came on stage in Britain in late 17 century- so 2 centuries later In the 19 century Marx had enough data for his analysis.
What is going on now worldwide is textbook examples of what they were saying all along.
I went to a lecture and was introduced to this video
It is interesting to hear this guy-PhD in economics who calls himself “ Marxian “ economist.
He is not. He simplifies Marxism so much to smooth out the sharpest criticism, but it is a start.
https://youtu.be/qT1JAzhywfA
And how are their ideas working out these days?
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Old 04-10-2019, 08:35 AM
 
Location: near bears but at least no snakes
26,657 posts, read 28,718,912 times
Reputation: 50551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatsright19 View Post
And how are their ideas working out these days?
I watched the video. Marxism is too extreme, just as pure capitalism is too extreme. Neither one works on its own. Capitalism with a few social programs to help the down and out would be best. And keep balancing it out so that it doesn't veer too far one way or the other.

Pure Marxism would be crazy and I don't think anyone wants that. Trump's old friend Steve Bannon of Briebart is a Marxist and says he's for the people. But that's too extreme. Pure Marxism is just as bad as pure capitalism. Capitalism is best but with a few shots of socialism thrown in so it doesn't fly out of control like it has.
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Old 04-10-2019, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Oregon Coast
15,423 posts, read 9,107,021 times
Reputation: 20402
Quote:
Originally Posted by njbiodude View Post
I'm only 30 but is anyone else noticing massive US decline?

I feel like the number of poor or homeless is increasing, and student loan amounts are rising way over inflation. Places with jobs have unaffordable housing even for many professionals and places without jobs have half the people on disability. I'm currently making over 100k/yr and live better than many of my friends. But my standard of living is far below that of my low paid hippie parents who used to casually rent a 3 bedroom home in my area while my Dad worked a mediocre job and my mom stayed home to raise me.

Republican vs Democrat I don't think it matters. It's all smoke and mirrors to deny the actual problem. Do any of you think there are merely too many humans? Like all ecosystems when too many organisms exist and comsume the limited resources there is a crash.

Maybe a global one child policy is the way to go.
Yeah. 1950s, a working man could make a good living, including buying a nice house and a car. He didn't even need his wife's income to do it. She would just stay home and take care of the kids. By the 1970s they could do the same thing, except the wife had to work too, and the kids were left to fend for themselves. What is left to do next, put the kids to work, to try and keep up?

I don't agree though that the homeless problem is part of it. At least not the classic homeless problem that most people see. The homeless problem would exist even if the economy was not in decline. That is a political problem, namely political policies that dumped mental patients out onto the streets.

So yeah, anybody who can't see that the US is in decline, must have their head in the sand.
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Old 04-10-2019, 09:42 AM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
27,597 posts, read 28,706,672 times
Reputation: 25179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz View Post
So yeah, anybody who can't see that the US is in decline, must have their head in the sand.
Yet, the United States GDP is over 20 trillion dollars - the highest it's been in history.

Actually, it's the highest that any nation has ever been.
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Old 04-10-2019, 09:49 AM
 
10,609 posts, read 5,661,339 times
Reputation: 18905
Quote:
Originally Posted by eliza61nyc View Post
That's why African americans are really mad about this opiod crisis. when our community asked for help in fighting this scourge , President Reagan branded us as crack ho's and welfare queens.
Just to be clear, President Reagan, also saw the problem as incompetent government employees who have little incentive to do their jobs and prevent welfare fraud.

Specifically, the person he railed against as a Welfare Queen (embezzler) back in 1976 during his unsuccessful presidential campaign was Linda Taylor.

Linda Taylor's crimes went beyond welfare fraud. They included assault, theft, insurance fraud, bigamy, kidnapping & sale of children. She was believed to be a murderer as well.

The indictment listed 80 aliases under which she fraudulently obtained welfare payments.

And Linda Taylor was white.

Last edited by RationalExpectations; 04-10-2019 at 11:13 AM..
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Old 04-10-2019, 09:58 AM
 
Location: near bears but at least no snakes
26,657 posts, read 28,718,912 times
Reputation: 50551
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
Yet, the United States GDP is over 20 trillion dollars - the highest it's been in history.

Actually, it's the highest that any nation has ever been.
It's not about the sum total. It's about individuals and their lives. A country is composed of people and it's all about people. America has become a country of the super rich (Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, etc.) The super rich have so much money it's ridiculous. Meanwhile the middle class is not what it used to be no matter how hard they work. And the lower class is getting even lower. It may average out to look good but that's just an average. In reality, most people (and that's what a country is about--the people) are working more and not having a very great quality of life.
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