U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Covid-19 Information Page
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 04-24-2019, 01:19 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
36,652 posts, read 17,025,058 times
Reputation: 27085

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
Right. Let's completely cement the idea of 4-year degrees as job tickets, drive more students from non-STEM careers and increase overcrowding of candidates for all those "hot" job fields. Great idea.

Too bad a vast number of students drowning in debt are in the kind of fields you're promoting, not the conservative fantasy notion of advanced basket weaving.
This ^
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-24-2019, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,717 posts, read 4,088,856 times
Reputation: 13397
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
Because they haven't been able to develop a harvesting machine for some delicate crops like strawberries, cherries and asparagus. And it's not been cost efficient or possible to create a machine that can babysit small children or effectively clean motel rooms. The other reason we import foreign workers is to lower wage growth for US workers, i.e H1B tech workers.
All true. However, look for the (labor) solution to come from the other end of the problem in many of these areas... for example, motel rooms that are designed for robotic/automated cleaning.

AI etc. does not need to be 100% human-equivalent - at all, or for any specialized purpose. But once it reaches a certain level, adaptations to its capabilities will close the gap.

Motel rooms designed for automated cleaning would not be hard - they would just be a little different from the standard Motel 6 layout and esthetic. And an accounting system that could do the component reports all day long but needed a human to write the overall TPS report... not a big leap.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-24-2019, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
36,652 posts, read 17,025,058 times
Reputation: 27085
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
All true. However, look for the (labor) solution to come from the other end of the problem in many of these areas... for example, motel rooms that are designed for robotic/automated cleaning.

AI etc. does not need to be 100% human-equivalent - at all, or for any specialized purpose. But once it reaches a certain level, adaptations to its capabilities will close the gap.

Motel rooms designed for automated cleaning would not be hard - they would just be a little different from the standard Motel 6 layout and esthetic. And an accounting system that could do the component reports all day long but needed a human to write the overall TPS report... not a big leap.
I'm not arguing with you, and I'm sure that given time a machine will be built that will harvest asparagus better than a human, but as long as cheap foreign labor is available it postpones automation of those activities.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-24-2019, 02:37 PM
 
30,118 posts, read 20,616,942 times
Reputation: 52054
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
Because they haven't been able to develop a harvesting machine for some delicate crops like strawberries, cherries and asparagus. And it's not been cost efficient or possible to create a machine that can babysit small children or effectively clean motel rooms. The other reason we import foreign workers is to lower wage growth for US workers, i.e H1B tech workers.
All foreign workers aren’t low paid. I’ve been a therapist for 20 years, we have many, many therapists (as well as nurses) who come over from the Philippines and live their lives here as foreign workers. Their salaries are not any less than anyone else’s. Neither are the plethora of doctors from India and other countries. Therapists and other health care workers were enticed over by huge salary offers due to shortages starting a couple of decades ago.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-24-2019, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
36,652 posts, read 17,025,058 times
Reputation: 27085
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
All foreign workers aren’t low paid. I’ve been a therapist for 20 years, we have many, many therapists (as well as nurses) who come over from the Philippines and live their lives here as foreign workers. Their salaries are not any less than anyone else’s. Neither are the plethora of doctors from India and other countries. Therapists and other health care workers were enticed over by huge salary offers due to shortages starting a couple of decades ago.
I'm not familiar with pay for foreign health care workers, but it's been demonstrated that H1B employees have been used as low cost replacements for American workers in tech.

Quote:
Under the law, the hiring of H-1Bs is not supposed to affect wages and working conditions of U.S. workers. In truth, however, the H-1Bs are brought in at significantly lower wages than the Americans they replace, says Ron Hira, researcher for the Economic Policy Institute and a professor at Howard University.

Hira points out that H-1B workers are supposed to be paid the “prevailing wage” for the position they fill. But at Edison, for example, the H-1Bs were paid $66,000 to $71,000 a year for jobs that Edison had been paying its now-fired employees $110,000 annually. https://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/...replacements/#
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-24-2019, 03:19 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,717 posts, read 4,088,856 times
Reputation: 13397
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
I'm not arguing with you, and I'm sure that given time a machine will be built that will harvest asparagus better than a human, but as long as cheap foreign labor is available it postpones automation of those activities.
Zero argument. Count me among those who understand the place and value of immigrant labor, both temporary and green-card. (Not convinced that H-1B's are any good thing, at least, not at current levels.)
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-24-2019, 05:29 PM
 
23,464 posts, read 9,432,943 times
Reputation: 11273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
Right. Let's completely cement the idea of 4-year degrees as job tickets, drive more students from non-STEM careers and increase overcrowding of candidates for all those "hot" job fields. Great idea.
.
Actually it is. Too many Gender Studies baristas for life in America. STEM has not maxed out yet, nor will it, for years.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-24-2019, 05:45 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,717 posts, read 4,088,856 times
Reputation: 13397
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960 View Post
Actually it is. Too many Gender Studies baristas for life in America. STEM has not maxed out yet, nor will it, for years.
Completely missing the point, but never mind.

It's a sad day when it becomes so common to **** all over any non-job-ticket degree, especially while boosting something as marching-moron as yet more IT and CS drones.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-30-2019, 09:05 AM
 
Location: Fort Payne Alabama
1,687 posts, read 1,878,024 times
Reputation: 3203
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
All foreign workers aren’t low paid. I’ve been a therapist for 20 years, we have many, many therapists (as well as nurses) who come over from the Philippines and live their lives here as foreign workers. Their salaries are not any less than anyone else’s. Neither are the plethora of doctors from India and other countries. Therapists and other health care workers were enticed over by huge salary offers due to shortages starting a couple of decades ago.
In one way you are incorrect. The shortage is being caused by the way our medical schools and nursing programs are run. They limit the applicants and then limit the number of graduates. If they would open these programs up, there would be no need for these foreign health care workers. The ability to bring in them adds In addressing this problem and in fact does restrict wages as well as possible solutions to our health care mess.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-30-2019, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
36,652 posts, read 17,025,058 times
Reputation: 27085
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960 View Post
Actually it is. Too many Gender Studies baristas for life in America. STEM has not maxed out yet, nor will it, for years.
that's not true.

Quote:
Even highly-regarded STEM majors are not immune to underemployment. Three in ten engineering majors have a first job that does not require a college degree. Eighteen percent are underemployed both in their first jobs and in the jobs they have five years after leaving school. https://www.forbes.com/sites/preston.../#7bac426a7490
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Economics
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2020, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top